Ian Bruce Starts New Business!

[Derwin]

I was just informed that Ian Bruce has begun a new business called ROTAVI, Inc. as of September 2008. Here is a page where you can see what Ian has posted on the younoodle website:

http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=773&stc=1&d=1229268591

[Miracleman89]

WHAT THE????? So he is no longer a part of VV/Persu??? It shows that as of august he is no longer with VV/persu?? What happened?

[Derwin]

WHAT THE????? So he is no longer a part of VV/Persu??? It shows that as of august he is no longer with VV/persu?? What happened?

Why are you jumping to that conclusion? I think it is very likely that Ian can be a part of BOTH companies. Actually, I was personally informed by both Scot and Steve that Ian Bruce is still actively involved with Persu, and nothing has changed in regards to that.

If you look at what this new company is going to be about, I think it actually goes hand-in-glove with the Persu project...


Rotavi will be producing highly efficient drivetrain systems and software for hybrid vehicle applications.

I don't think Ian has left Persu at all, but is actually creating a company that may be able to profit from providing parts for the Persu Hybrid. What do you think?

I'll be speaking with Scot on Monday about the club contract, and I'll mention this to him as well.

Derwin

[Miracleman89]

Derwin
I wasn't jumping to anything man. Take a look at the way I wrote it, I wrote question marks on everything. I wanted to make sure I was reading it right and get others opinions!

[Derwin]

I guess I just misread what you were saying/asking! Anyway, I'll find out more Monday when I speak with Scot.

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

My belief is that he (Ian) is still the EVP of Design and Technology at Pursu and that would not preclude him being involved in a start up -spin off company Rotavi, Inc. Since the startup produces drivetrain systems and software for hybrid vehicles, a direct off offshoot of what they are building. (since we were told recently that he was still active - but still active could mean that Rotavi could be providing the hybrid software dna drivetrain)

It is much like Carver Engineering, formerly called Brink Dynamics, is Carver Worldwide's (the Carver Vehicle) vehicle engineering, Dynamic Vehicle Control (DVC™) concept, technology and prototyping company.

You will have competition anyway.... and some will come up with similar but diversely different concepts and no one will build enough to satisfy the desires that are out there. Why not get a piece of the action from other peoples builds.

Of course it could also mean that he has the focus on the startup and is more of a consultant on Pursu Hybrid (concentrating on the hybrid drive train) Or that being the director of Ratavi is now his only focus but I will about bet that this is a result of the Pursu Hybrid tech so I would guess that the tie still binds.

I guess we will know more when Derwin asks some specific questions.

[rogwild]

It would 'APPEAR' that from "WORK EXPERIENCE":

Rotavi Inc. = Sept 2008-Present
Venture Vehicles Inc. = Mar 2005-Aug 2008

That he is stating that he is no longer 'employed' by Venture Vehicles Inc. (Persu Mobility)

It could be that he did not 'know' (or was able to reveal the new name) when this was written, and will later ADD:
Persu Mobility = Sept 2008-Present

But, as written, it appears that he is NOT employed by Persu Mobility. Just a logical reading of the above.

[randi]

My belief is that he (Ian) is still the EVP of Design and Technology at Pursu and that would not preclude him being involved in a start up -spin off company Rotavi, Inc. Since the startup produces drivetrain systems and software for hybrid vehicles, a direct off offshoot of what they are building. (since we were told recently that he was still active - but still active could mean that Rotavi could be providing the hybrid software dna drivetrain)

It is much like Carver Engineering, formerly called Brink Dynamics, is Carver Worldwide's (the Carver Vehicle) vehicle engineering, Dynamic Vehicle Control (DVC™) concept, technology and prototyping company.

You will have competition anyway.... and some will come up with similar but diversely different concepts and no one will build enough to satisfy the desires that are out there. Why not get a piece of the action from other peoples builds.

Of course it could also mean that he has the focus on the startup and is more of a consultant on Pursu Hybrid (concentrating on the hybrid drive train) Or that being the director of Ratavi is now his only focus but I will about bet that this is a result of the Pursu Hybrid tech so I would guess that the tie still binds.

I guess we will know more when Derwin asks some specific questions.

Explains the big freeze.

I don't believe he's still employed by Persu.

Next question: where in the world is Howard Levine?

[AZEqualizer]

yea I found that reading logic into anything that is dictated by a lawyer is dubious at best.

[Derwin]

But, as written, it appears that he is NOT employed by Persu Mobility. Just a logical reading of the above.

Yep, I would agree that it does *appear* that his "employment" with Venture Vehicles ended in August. But let me remind everybody that I have had very long discussion with both Scot and Steve, and they both told me that Ian is still actively involved in the company. They stated this after I asked them DIRECTLY if Ian was still with the company.

Like I said, I'll present this same question again to Scot on Monday. It will be interesting to see what he says.

Derwin

[rogwild]

More info about the New Company at:

http://www.gobignetwork.com/profiles/Ian-Bruce.aspx

[AZEqualizer]

Nice job on finding this Rog.... I thought I would just cut and paste the info here.

Rotavi, Inc. (http://www.gobignetwork.com/funding/fundingRequestDetail_304235.aspx) -Company Description:
Location:Aliso Viejo, CA (USA)

Rotavi will be producing a spec for small, highly efficient, biofuel optimized engine for both direct-drive and hybrid applications.

While much of the VC community is focused of biofuels, Rotavi is working to create a much more efficient way to use them. For example, a typical 4 cylinder engine is about 30% efficient -- that is, 70% of the gasoline that runs from the tank to the engine is simply wasted as heat, parasitic drag, friction, and raw fuel expelled out the tailpipe. By contrast, the Rotavi engine is as much as 60% thermally efficient, can be air cooled, and is designed to easily recirculate exhaust gasses back to the engine to be re-burned -- reducing NOx, CO, and HC pollutants even further.

Mechanical simplicity is also a key Rotavi feature. Although the engine has 12 cylinders, it only has 7 moving parts, 2 exhaust ports, 2 intake ports, and only 2 spark plugs. This breakthrough design allows for as much as 4 horsepower for each pound of engine weight. That is, a 100HP engine could weigh as little as 25-30 lbs.

By contrast, a typical 100HP engine can have as many as 80 moving parts, and hundreds of precision manufactured components. Many mass-market engines in use today can require as much as 3lbs of engine for every single unit of horsepower they generate. Worse, more fuel is wasted dragging an unnecessarily heavy engine along for the ride. Using a substantially smaller, and lighter engine means an even greater overall vehicle performance than a simple comparison would indicate.

International demand for small engines is a $200B ballgame, with the Chinese, Indian and Indonesian markets alone accounting for more than 22 million small capacity engines annually. Combine this with the increasing CARB and EURO restrictions on CO2 output, as well as the recent EPA mandates on non-road sub-25HP engines beginning in 2011, and you’ve got an unparalleled adoption opportunity.

Although Rotavi’s business model is licensing the engine technology to transportation manufacturers, the Company will also be producing a line of branded 100 - 200mpg scooters and motorcycles as a technology showcase.

[WarpedOne]

Are we finally going to see a revolutionary ICE design being produced and sold to small customers?

This is too good to be true :|

[rogwild]

With the NAME of the new company "ROTAvi", I wouldn't be surprised if it was one these (or a variation):
http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284&highlight=Rotamax

[WarpedOne]

Yes, you might be right.


Although the engine has 12 cylinders, it only has 7 moving parts, 2 exhaust ports, 2 intake ports, and only 2 spark plugs. This breakthrough design allows for as much as 4 horsepower for each pound of engine weight. That is, a 100HP engine could weigh as little as 25-30 lbs.

I don't see how they've counted to come to 12 cylinders, but other numbers do fit wankel engine. Though, I do not see how they will manage to do 60% thermal efficiency.

I guess Venture Vechicles ... Persu Mobility found there ain't any real source of Wankel engines to buy from and they have to make their own if they want to use them.

[AZEqualizer]

If you count 4 rotors with 3 cylinders (i have heard of each side of the triangle being called a cylinder) each it would make 12 it would still be a unique rotary engine with two spark plugs .. unless some of the rotors were a precompresser like a super charger.

[MVRacing]

If you count 4 rotors with 3 cylinders (i have heard of each side of the triangle being called a cylinder) each it would make 12 it would still be a unique rotary engine with two spark plugs .. unless some of the rotors were a precompresser like a super charger.

Hum, yes I can see that if the first 2 rotors were precompression for the second two rotors with the spark plugs ... interesting idea=y:

That would make for 2 intake ports, 2 exhaust ports and 6 moving parts ... wonder what the 7th is?

Oh yes, ... the excentric shaft has to be in two pieces that lock together! That would make 7 parts! Did a rebuild on a Mazda three rotor a few years back and it had the 2 piece excentric shaft.

[Mark Tomlinson]

This whole thing sounds to me like Ian left for a new opportunity (Rotavi Engines), but continues to advise at Persu. Start-ups are very volatile environments, and I'm betting that a conflict of interest developed when Ian began involvement with an engine that Persu probably will not be using.

Ian's YouNoodle profile (http://younoodle.com/people/ian_bruce) clearly shows he is not employed by Persu any more. He probably sits on the board at Persu.

I commented that Persu will probably not be using the Rotavi engine. The "Leading Edge vs. Bleeding Edge" technology page on the site makes it clear they will be using established technology. But the sentence, "Looking forward, the company has anticipated the potential of emerging technologies and has the flexibility to adapt them as they reach market viability and deliver a superior customer package", indicates to me that they may be anticipating the Ratovi if and when it becomes available.

A lot of this would explain some of the weirdness at Persu. Imagine if the founder and technology VP of a company becomes invested (either financially or intellectually or both) with a supplier that the board chooses to take a pass on. This is a clear conflict of interest and could go a long way toward explaining delays, silence, and the reason we stopped hearing from Ian. It's probably no coincidence that Ian's last post was 7/26 and Steve Parry's first post was 8/27. The time frames fit Ian's YouNoodle profile exactly.

[ppi]

V1 already in production in Detroit ??????

[Miracleman89]

Good Catch ppi!!!! Does anyone live in Detroit that can do some scouting around and see what they can find out????

[WarpedOne]

Hum, yes I can see that if the first 2 rotors were precompression for the second two rotors with the spark plugs ... interesting idea
Interesting indeed!
Can anyone elaborate on this concept or provide some links?

[Jack Willard]

Well, I always said that I thought Ian Bruce was a 'fire-in-the-belly' kind of guy. He is obviously driven to pursue (pun intended) multiple visions. That's just the type of fellow that's quite a bit of fun to work with. My last employer was such a fellow and I must say that I miss working with him. :wave:

I surely do hope that Ian Bruce is still contributing to Pursu Mobilty, for he in fact was the one with the original vision and the drive to "persue" it. It would certainly be interesting to hear from him again. I bet it is an intriguing story to tell. Derwin, ask him if he might be willing to post something here.

I for one wish Ian the best and would be interested to hear about it all. dr:ive1)

[MikeB]

If you count 4 rotors with 3 cylinders (i have heard of each side of the triangle being called a cylinder) each it would make 12 it would still be a unique rotary engine with two spark plugs .. unless some of the rotors were a precompresser like a super charger.

I don't think you can make a huge step forward in efficiency just by putting in a precompression (supercharger) stage. My speculation would be that the extra stage is actually post-compression, taking additional energy out of the hot exhaust stream.

In large scale steam turbine generators, they actually use a cascade of turbines, each one operating a a lower pressure level than it's predecessor. You can do this pretty easily with steam, but I have no idea how to translate the concept into a rotary engine. If Ian's gotten a hold of an idea from somewhere on how to make this work, it could be really huge.

[AZEqualizer]

This synopsys was found on CrunchBase (http://www.crunchbase.com/company/rotavi-inc) and updated 4/23/09

http://www.crunchbase.com/assets/images/resized/0004/2200/42200v2-max-450x450.jpg

Rotavi will be producing a manufacturing specification for small, highly efficient, biofuel-optimized engine for both direct-drive and hybrid applications, based on the Cylindrical Energy Module (CEM) configuration originally developed by E P Industries, Inc. (EPI), and used here under license. The CEM’s sinusoidal cam architecture is well tested in other devices, having an extraordinarily high order of mechanical efficiency, and a 100% operational record since its service introduction 15 years ago.

While much of the investment community is focused on the production of biofuels, Rotavi is working to create a more efficient way to use them. For example, a typical 4 cylinder engine is about from 25 - 30% efficient – that is, as much as 75% of the gasoline that runs from the tank to the engine is simply wasted as heat, parasitic drag, friction, and raw fuel expelled out the tailpipe. By contrast, the Rotavi engine is nearly 60% thermally efficient, can be air cooled, and is designed to easily recirculate exhaust gasses back to the engine to be re-burned – reducing NOx, CO, and HC pollutants even further. At cruising speeds, half the engine can simply be “switched off” or leaned out for EGR re-burn.

Mechanical simplicity is a key Rotavi feature. Although the engine has 12 cylinders, it only has 7 main moving parts, 2 exhaust ports, 2 intake ports, and only 2 spark plugs. By contrast, a typical 4-cylinder, piston engine may have as many as 60 moving parts). The intake and exhaust ports in the engine’s heads of the rotor housing eliminates the need for valves, camshafts, rocker arms, springs, lifter rods, and timing belts. This results in substantially less parasitic drag from mechanically driving the many components required in a typical engine, as well as making the engine 100% volumetrically efficient. This breakthrough design theoretically allows for as much as 3 to 4 horsepower for each pound of engine weight. That is, a 100HP Rotavi engine could weigh as little as 25-35 lbs.

[Derwin]

Nice find, AZE! It appears that Ian has been pretty busy!

[waboom]

They're just producing the manufacturing spec, not actually going to manufacture it themselves? Good way to keep overhead down if that's the case.

[rogwild]

Since they aren't going to make an actual 'working' engine:mad:science:; shouldn't be too difficult:baby:, but how are going to 'verify' their efficiency claims?du:n:n:o(
Wonder if they will make a 'mock-up' out of FOAM?:bounce:

[RAN]

Great. No working engine. This should be a valuable contribution to all of our problems. Maybe they can put the foam engine mock-up into the foam V-1 mock-up. bang:h:1

[Derwin]

I guess I must be missing something (as usual!).

Where exactly is it said that they are not going to make an actual working engine?

Derwin

[rogwild]

I guess I must be missing something (as usual!).

Where exactly is it said that they are not going to make an actual working engine?

Derwin

Well they might eventually, once they 'produce' the "a manufacturing specification" for a small engine (all the article said they were doing). First they have to figure out what SIZE, DISPLACEMENT, WEIGHT, (that end users would require for their applications); next they have to decide what RAW MATERIALS, and APPROPRIATE ALLOYS should be used to build it; finally they have to make, test and manufacture it.
I would think that the 'manufacturing specification' is an early phase of the product life cycle (somewhere after the 'idea' and 'design specification' phases), and quite a ways from an actual production engine for SALE.

Can't find any more (or any) information on their website:
http://www.rotavi.com/
It only has a logo and cover page saying "Very Soon Now" (where have I heard that before) since the company was founded last summer.

It is a great IDEA to "pitch " to potential investors and future customers. Heck they might even find someone willing to invest $6 million into it, without a working prototype.

[jeremymc7]

Anyone find out anything else in the last two months on this. I couldn't find anything myself.