New York Times

[Mark Tomlinson]

So, the major news outlet that Ian was referring to is the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/smallbusiness/14cars.html?_r=2&ei=5089&en=cd13895a9a918151&ex=1352782800&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1195058002-1D0pNnHwyvUSQUIQDS217w&oref=slogin).

[Hardtime11]

So, the major news outlet that Ian was referring to is the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/smallbusiness/14cars.html?_r=2&ei=5089&en=cd13895a9a918151&ex=1352782800&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1195058002-1D0pNnHwyvUSQUIQDS217w&oref=slogin).

Well the article in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/smallbusiness/14cars.html) is fairly good. It is to me one of the Entrepreneurs papers/magazines. Maybe it is, mabe it is not the paper Ian was talking about. We shall see if he waits till Friday to do any updates. This article really did not have anything that has not been discussed thus far other than a newer picture. We shall see.:confused:

[rogwild]

Good find Mark.
Unfortunately not new information or 'pictures' (just the old Carver, not a Venture Vehicle prototype as stated). They did mention a 'new name' but did NOT state it. More of a 'teaser' than informative, but good exposure for V.V.

[Timon]

Interesting but I'm not sure that's the "Big" new story. I just have a feeling that something else is about ready to hit the news. If this was the story then I expect that Ian will be posting very soon.

[rogwild]

Overall, I believe the article was very 'balanced'; but found the quote from the VC backer NGEN, very revealing:
"I know nothing about cars,” said Robert Koch, a partner there.........
“Once you have the battery and the propulsion system, building a car is not that complicated,” Mr. Koch said.

It appears Mr. Koch, doesn't have a 'clue' about building a modern production vehicle.

[Miracleman89]

I think the big news is the fact that an article about them was printed in the NY times. It is one of America's premiere papers and it will definitely get more of the word out! I am a little disappointed that they did not include the web address, but you can't have everything. Beside if people see the article they might google it and find their way to the fly the road forum and then eventually here!

[Timon]

“Once you have the battery and the propulsion system, building a car is not that complicated,” Mr. Koch said.

It appears Mr. Koch, doesn't have a 'clue' about building a modern production vehicle.

I don't think he's that far off. The propulsion system is the single bigest part of the design. Once you have that working the frame and body is very easily doable. Remember those are being done by Swift Engineering and they do have a good track record in more ways than one.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Overall, I believe the article was very 'balanced'; but found the quote from the VC backer NGEN, very revealing:
"I know nothing about cars,” said Robert Koch, a partner there.........
“Once you have the battery and the propulsion system, building a car is not that complicated,” Mr. Koch said.

It appears Mr. Koch, doesn't have a 'clue' about building a modern production vehicle.

LOL! Boy do I agree.

Why do you think they are only selling them in California initially? And what happens if one of your stratigic partners backs out at the last minute? Any idea how many thousands of dollars are involved in designing a headlight? A taillight? What if you can't find an off-the-shelf windshield wiper assembly that works? What if the radio supplier says they can't supply the quantity you want? Where are the seats coming from? They're going to need a whole property management group to handle dealerships. And... and...

Thank god this doesn't have a fourth wheel.

[RAN]

Thank god this doesn't have a fourth wheel.

You got that right! It may only have 1 by the time it hits the road http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x139/MahBoff/ike.gif

[AZEqualizer]

I seriously doubt that was the big exclusive... there wasn't any new information that hadn't show up other places... Hence there was no exclusive anything. :cool:

[rogwild]

... The propulsion system is the single bigest part of the design. Once you have that working the frame and body is very easily doable. Remember those are being done by Swift Engineering and they do have a good track record in more ways than one.
Unfortunately, V.V. DOESN'T have a propulsion system yet. By the looks of the 'changes' on their web site, they are still trying to figure where to put the batteries (don't think they even decided which ones yet), and may be backing off the 'wheel hub' motors for some other configuration of electric drive. After they hook that up, they have to come up with an ICE to charge the hybrid model (have they even decided on an ICE yet). Then they have to have all the controls and SOFTWARE to make it go and stop, ABS, Traction Control, all for a new type of electric vehicle. Then they have to 'adapt' the DVC to their vehicle design (size, weight, configuration [not even decided yet]). All this just to get a 'running prototype' to test. Then decide and adapt all the creature comforts; Heating, AC, windows, lights, mirrors, sunroof, wipers, instruments, sound system, and the list goes on. After all is 'done', they have to document everything and publish an owner's manual (and hopefully a maintenance manual). Making it GO, is only the 'tip of the iceberg' for a production vehicle.

[RAN]

Uhhh..... yup.

[AZEqualizer]

Unfortunately, V.V. DOESN'T have a propulsion system yet. By the looks of the 'changes' on their web site, they are still trying to figure where to put the batteries (don't think they even decided which ones yet), and may be backing off the 'wheel hub' motors for some other configuration of electric drive. After they hook that up, they have to come up with an ICE to charge the hybrid model (have they even decided on an ICE yet). Then they have to have all the controls and SOFTWARE to make it go and stop, ABS, Traction Control, all for a new type of electric vehicle. Then they have to 'adapt' the DVC to their vehicle design (size, weight, configuration [not even decided yet]). All this just to get a 'running prototype' to test. Then decide and adapt all the creature comforts; Heating, AC, windows, lights, mirrors, sunroof, wipers, instruments, sound system, and the list goes on. After all is 'done', they have to document everything and publish an owner's manual (and hopefully a maintenance manual). Making it GO, is only the 'tip of the iceberg' for a production vehicle.

Hey Rog - You know all this....by tuning into the psychic hotline? ... They, at this point, are your assumptions based upon no information.

[rogwild]

No, AZE, they are based upon the 'very limited' information provided, the recent activity at the FTR website, and the RELUCTANCE (or inability) of V.V. to answer any questions by forum members over the past few months (just review the 'Questions for Ian' to see how many have gotten an ANSWER).
A reasonable person would find it difficult to believe that they are 'on course' and meeting 'milestones' (which they have failed to publish even after 'promising' to do so), when their 'limited projections' (prototype development and production release date) keep slipping BACK (I still cannot believe they used the term "moved FORWARD" to describe the delay).

Please explain why, If they ALREADY have a propulsion system, that Ian made a trip to England (just a couple weeks ago) to TALK to an electric motor company making 'hub-motors' and the recent 'changes' on the website (without any 'forewarning') seem to indicate a change toward a single non-hub motor? And why have 'long standing' strategic partners been removed without explanation or replacement? Those are some of the reasons that I conclude that they do not yet have a propulsion system.
Perhaps you could list the reasons that you believe that they DO HAVE A WORKING PROPULSION SYSTEM.
But the major 'POINT' of that post was to show that there are a myriad of other complex and time consuming factors (besides the propulsion system) that are required to bring a modern production vehicle to market.

[RAN]

People tend to brag about their successes and hide their failures. I don't hear no braggin' goin' on......

The propulsion system shows sudden changes... many of the partners that were to supply parts of this system have disappeared... and we're still hearing nothing.

What does that tell you???

I don't know Ian well enough to have faith in him. All I have to go on are his actions to date.

[MikeB]

They have since signed contracts with some of the biggest names in the auto business, including California Motors, which specializes in propulsion systems; Swift Engineering, which builds suspensions and drivetrains; and the American subsidiary of a major European automaker (whom they have declined to name publicly) to design the car.

Did you guys notice this paragraph in the NYT article? I think I know who this design company is, but Ian asked us not to speculate about their involvement until a formal announcement was made. Old-timers will know who this is.

[Derwin]

Did you guys notice this paragraph in the NYT article? I think I know who this design company is, but Ian asked us no to speculate about their involvement until a formal announcement was made. Old-timers will know who this is.


MikeB,

Hey, if you think you know who it is, then why not just post your thought here? There is no law against it! You may be correct, or you may be wrong, but I think if people have ideas or thoughts about this, they should feel free to post them here.

Derwin

[Timon]

As last reported by autobloggreen.com it was BMW DesignWorksUSA. You can find it via a simple google search.

[randi]

MikeB,

Hey, if you think you know who it is, then why not just post your thought here? There is no law against it! You may be correct, or you may be wrong, but I think if people have ideas or thoughts about this, they should feel free to post them here.

Derwin

It's tempting to speculate, and for most of us it's not a mystery. However, we should respect VV's request for forum members not to speculate. Whatever the reasons, I imagine they're pretty compelling since they've doggedly declined to name this design entity.

I advise against posting guesses here.

[Derwin]

Well, I simply do not agree with this. If their organization is SOOOOOOOOO weak that the project will be jeapardized by simple speculation by independent enthusiasts, than I have a news bulletin for you......Venture Vehicles is simply a scam that will never see the light of day!

IT IS NOT A SCAM, and it WILL see the light of day. It is a viable product that will indeed reach the market. We are independent enthusiasts. We have the right and freedom to discuss this project openly. We can say what we want to say about whatever subject comes up. There are ABSOLUTELY NO RESTRAINTS on talking about Venture Vehicles and this project.

As I said, we are INDEPENDENT of any company restraints. This gives us the freedom to share our ideas. If people have any ideas about what is happening at Venture Vehicles, PLEASE SHARE THEM! This is what this club is all about.

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

VV was talking about speculation on the Official site... we aren't an official site and you can speculate away.

But don't state your speculation is fact... because it is a guess no more no less.

And conclusions based upon stuff you pulled out of your back pocket are guesses too... Is it because misery loves company and it is easier to jump to negative conclusions based upon minutia.

I don't have any fact to base this next statement other than my "feelings" about someone... But I happen to feel that if anyone can make this vehicle come to life it is Ian and crew. If it makes you feel better to take the doubtful negative approach then so be it. But don't make it sound like you have a fact until you hear it from the horses mouth.

One has a choice to bad mouth something or be supportive. Does that mean I'm willing to throw money at these guys ... no. But it does mean that I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I know what it is like to be independent and then be under the thumb of a corporation with partners that have as much say or more than I and restrictions etc... and hence be handcuffed and not liking it. But one does what is best to accomplish the job... and take the heat for it.

Jump to conclusions all you want... but don't state them as hard cold fact until you are given the facts. You choose how you want to connect the dots. I have been there and I am one of those who is willing to wait and see rather than throw a fit because I don't get what I desire.

[Timon]

It's tempting to speculate, and for most of us it's not a mystery. However, we should respect VV's request for forum members not to speculate. Whatever the reasons, I imagine they're pretty compelling since they've doggedly declined to name this design entity.

I advise against posting guesses here.

This may be true on the VV Corporate site but not on a fan/club site. Anyway, we're not posting anything that has not already been posted on the Internet. We're just posting the results of our research.

[smoove7410]

You can say whatever you want to say...this is a forum for discussion, not a forum to cater to VV.