Aptera electric car ready for drivers?

[Timon]

Aptera electric car ready for drivers? (http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9820051-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1040_3-0-5)

3NuhYmK-CQc

[RAN]

The outside is rounded... the interior is all flat and sharp. I would hope they plan to re-do the interior on the production versions; it looks horrible.

Looks like they moved their production schedule up. Last I heard they were going into production in fall 2008. Also, there's at least 1 video of a real Aptera being driven around a parking lot.

Nice find Timon!

[AZEqualizer]

Yea, covertly without manufacture plates or any plates for that matter. Last I heard they still need to drum up more money, and it is a pretty big chunk too, in order to take this project further....

[WattGas?]

And this just hit the front page of Digg a couple hours ago:

http://digg.com/environment/300_MPG_Hybrid_For_Under_30K_Taking_Reservations

The masses don't seem very impressed...

[RAN]

Uh........ don't get me started on the "masses"... did you read some of those replies? http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x139/MahBoff/ike.gif

[Mark Tomlinson]

Uh........ don't get me started on the "masses"... did you read some of those replies?

Agreed. It'd didn't appear from my brief skimming that those masses even went to the web site. In particular was the poster who mentioned that it's classified as a motorcycle so if you get hit, you die. Uh... no.

Interestingly, the Aptera and the V1 are both only going to be sold in California at first. The Aptera reservation list has a drop-down box for "State", but only lists California, whereas the V1 reservation list drop-down has all US states. It could be just the crappy support of the V1 web site, or maybe the fact that the Aptera requires a $500 deposit so they are actually "selling" them on-line. But I like to think that Venture vehicles is just being more realistic about the market.

[Timon]

Guys, I would not put them down nor would I put much into what some were saying on Dig. I can tell that none of them has done any research on the Aptera. I've not done a lot but much more than they have.

My take is much like my take on the V. Although it looks like it came out of "The Jetson's" it's kind of grown on me.

If you believe them they are doing much the same as Venture from a safety point of view.

Some will like this more than the V because it's a side by side. I know that I'd have a better chance getting my wife to drive it than the V.

We'll see if their mileage clames hold true. If they do WOW. On short trips under 50 miles they claim up to 1,000 mpg. For trips over 120 miles they claim 300 mpg.

Could I see having one? Yes, almost as much as I see having a V although I think the V would be more fun to drive.

I think it's worth our while to keep an eye on them.

FWIW, I'm checking to see if I could go down and see one of their prototypes. I'll let you know what it's like if I do.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Timon, I agree.

I've been hesitant to say so on this forum because it sounds like a threat, but I was considering an Aptera before I met the V1, and may go back there if the V1 can't seat two comfortably.

See, the market I believe Venture should be shooting for is a fun replacement for a wasteful sedan. I drive a car that seats four comfortably (technically, five) to work and back everyday. My wife and I just got back from visiting the out-of-town relatives in the same four seater. At most we haul left-overs, maybe Christmas gifts, things that might tax the V1 a little but not outrageously. And even though our sedan boasts the largest trunk in it's class (when it was introduced), we'll still take the truck grocery shopping once in a while. Bottom line is I could replace the car with an Aptera or V1 and be perfectly happy. Since the last unofficial number of Californians I've seen who have plunked down the $500 reservation fee for the Aptera was at 288, I sense that there's a large enough market who agree.

Weighing the pros and cons, both the Aptera and the V1 are cool looking - although the Aptera is geeky cool and the V1 is flat out cool. The V1 is definitely more fun - period. But the Aptera looks comfortable, almost serene. And with the PHEV version of either vehicle, any MPG over 100 becomes almost an irrelevant comparison because most driving would be done under full electric anyways. (Let me stress that under 100 MPG or less than a 50 mile EV range changes the equation dramatically).

I personally think that the V1 and the Aptera are direct competitors for the same market segment, but I don't believe Venture has defined the market their shooting for. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that rather than bashing the Aptera, Venture should team up with them. A showroom with Apteras and Venture Ones would set the Auto industry on it's ear!

[Timon]

And this just hit the front page of Digg a couple hours ago:

http://digg.com/environment/300_MPG_Hybrid_For_Under_30K_Taking_Reservations

The masses don't seem very impressed...

Just about everything they said about the Aptera they would say about the V1. And I also don't think many of them read up on it but just wanted to mouth off.:rolleyes:

[Miracleman89]

Well , I am not impressed with the aptera. I haven't been, I don't like the looks of it at all! To me it looks like one of those little tyke cars jetson style and then enlarged! However, I don't knock them for what they are doing and I hope aptera does get off the ground! Anything to knock those damn big three off their high horses! On to a more pressing issue!!!!! All these frickin morons screaming about SUVs,:mad: GOD I JUST WANT TO KICK THEM ALL IN THE NUTS!!!!!!:mad: That is all these morons can think of, I swear!!!!! If it is smaller then a hotel then it can't be safe. :IDEA: I think I am going to develope a car for these numb nuts. ten feet tall, 33 inch tires, 10 feet wide, 20 feet long go 0-60 in 5 and provide as much safety as a grenade without a pin! Emplodes on impact!!!! Thinning the heard!!:mad:

[AZEqualizer]

On guy in CA got so tired of being hit he had a APC (with the tires not the track) licensed for the street. He has a case of green paint to do touch up work.

[WattGas?]

Did someone say something about Morons and SUV's?

http://www.ringsmuthvideo.com/misc/warmer.jpg

Sure makes me want to add some carbon to the atmosphere (i.e. burn it...)

[Miracleman89]

Maybe if these Suv numb nuts would stop eating 300 cheeseburgers a day they wouldn't need something the size of a semi to haul their fat rear ends around!!!!! Now I want to buy a Peel p50 and then go to a bunch of monster truck events just so I can watch there faces as I take my vehicle into the building with me!

[Mark Tomlinson]

Back to the Aptera for a moment, Gizmag published an interview with Steve Fambro yesterday.

http://www.gizmag.com/aptera-typ1-three-wheel-electric-vehicle/8392/1/

A couple of things I noted -

Love it or hate it, the Aptera now has >400 reservations from people with California mailing addresses. (Their reservation list requires a mailing address and only accepts California). Note that Aptera requires a refundable $500 deposit, which is probably just enough to make the list a reasonable measure of demand. I know Californians are more apt to adopt weird cars, but it still makes me wonder what the demand would be if they opened it up to the entire US.
The next to the last paragraph hints at a pretty solid business plan. Or, at least, some sort of business plan. Like Tesla Motors, I believe Aptera gave a lot of thought to whom they would be selling the car to and how to expand their market. I haven't heard such comments from Venture Vehicles, which could explain why the latest designs differ so much from the original concept.

[RAN]

I'm impressed with the speed at which this company developed this vehicle, through designing a totally new concept, building prototypes, and preparing it for production:
The first hand fabricated vehicle was completed six months later, achieving 230 mpg in October, and the program grew quickly into 2007 with the new generation Typ-1 vehicles developed in nine months, culminating in this week's official launch.

In nine months, Venture has given us....... unfinished sketches of Version C http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x139/MahBoff/rolleyes.gif

[Mark Tomlinson]

Something you don't find in the current press about the Aptera is that they started as a company called Accelerated Composites. They were something else before that, but memory fails me - I think it was high tech fluid control for the medical industry or something. Anyway, Accelerated Composites came about when Fambro and company found a way to mass produce carbon fiber composites cheaply, a patented process they call PAC2. Part of the original plan, before they joined IdeaLab, was to trade PAC2 to a major boat manufacturer for manufacturing capabilities. I don't hear much about any of that anymore, except that the Aptera has a "composite" skin. I think hooking up with IdeaLab gave them some focus and the resources necessary to pull off the Aptera in record time.

My point is, I guess, that Aptera (and Tesla Motors, by the way) began with experience in bringing new technologies to market. And Aptera was willing to seek a great deal of guidance - and control - from an established player. My fear is that Ian may be too much of an inexperienced idealist (more politely, visionary) to actually bring the V1 to market.

[RAN]

I think that VV is wasting time re-inventing the wheel in the wrong places. They already HAD a design that turned people on... instead of fine-tuning it and moving on to the next thing, here we are in masturbatory confusion looking at 2 other designs that are not only different from the original, and from each other, but are simply not the inspired design that the original was. Now their core of potential customers are fragmented vis-a-vis the looks of the V-1, where they were united before. The same thing with the in-wheel motors. We thought that was all fleshed out, all the benefits of this design were laid out, then one day they just vanish into the ether, and there are no specifics as to what powertrain will replace them. Then there's that disturbing Invention Nation appearance. Why is Ian trying to get publicity on a vehicle that's nowhere near the prototype stage? And why is he misleading the public into believing the Carver1 is a prototype his company built? He's already attracted a core group of enthusiasts. The priority now should be getting his dream built.... then he can parade around a real prototype to every media outlet in the land if he wants to.
This company is not realistic in their projections, always giving out best-case promises and never meeting them. They already had the tilting system design and layout handed to them. Throw a new body on it, put the new powertrains in it and build it already! The V-1 isn't going to be perfect. If they spend 5 more years on it, it still won't be perfect.
I find myself agreeing with Mark. I honestly don't think that the V-1 will see the light of day. They need to get this thing to market in 2008! 1stQ 2009 at the latest! It's called a deadline. It's how things really get done. Can Venture Vehicles make it in the real world? What do you think?

[rogwild]

The Aptera group have demonstrated that a new vehicle (at least the prototype) can be designed and constructed in a 'compressed' time period, but they still have the task of manufacturing 'en mass' and bringing it to market release.
I have always said that Venture Vehicles had an overly ambitious time frame (initially: 12 prototypes by Sep '07, production by 3/4qtr '08) and have repeatedly asked to see their 'major' task milestones and time line. Ian even 'promised' (back in Mar or Apr) that it would be published 'shortly'. I know that obtaining VC funding (series A) was a major accomplishment, but future funding will be contingent upon a show of steady PROGRESS.
Such things as; obtaining drivetrain components, complete engineering drawings, prototype frame construction, track/wind tunnel/crash testing, body panel construction, software/electrical diagrams, leasing/buying land and construction of a production facility, developing/printing owner's/maintenance manuals, etc. are ALL very time and labor extensive tasks, that Vv has not accounted for yet.
Personally, I cannot fathom how Vv can hope to meet an April '09 release date, when its been 9 months and they don't even know WHAT (final design) they are going to build yet, nor released what will PROPEL it, what batteries will be used, or what TYPE ICE engine will recharge them. The longer this 'drags' on with 'good things happening'; and no actual FACTS; the more the 'Vhatever' is looking like a "DREAM" and less like a "REALITY".:cry::cry:

[RAN]

And now, what is VV hard at work on? Coming up with a new name! Anybody have a problem with the one they have???? Here we go again..........

[wolf_tracker]

:(

I was ready to buy one next year ... I am beginning to think it will not
happen before I retire and that is Dec 5 years from now

How sad to have such a great idea and waste all this time
doing nothing to keep ppl excited ...

We will have a name for nothing i guess

:mad:

Wolf

[AZEqualizer]

Aptera's Super-MPG Electric Typ-1 e: Exclusive Video Test Drive (http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html?page=1)

Thanks to oicu812 over on the FTR site for pointing this out. This is the first article I have seen that goes into some detail on the construction and safety of this vehicle.

According to PM "Aptera has two innovative models that are almost production-ready at $30,000 and below: for next year, the all-electric, 120-mile-range Typ-1 e that we drove; and, by 2009, the range-extended series gasoline Typ-1 h, which Aptera says will hit 300 mpg. A more conventional third model, called “Project X” or perhaps Typ-2, is now in the design phase, with plans for a four-wheeled chassis and seating up for to five passengers."

Link to video (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1351302783/bctid1351300070)

[randi]

Great video!

Imagine finding this under your tree on Xmas morning!

Better yet, this AND a Venture!!

Ho, Ho, Ho! Merry Christmas!

[Billy]

IMO, I would purchase both, the V1, and Aptera. I know the V1 won't be available here 'till 2010, and I'm 98% sure the Aptera is going to be the same timeline. We'll see what happens with the V1, but I do agree with the prior posts, they need to get the ball rolling hard, but not to the point where the actual product suffers from being "cheaply" built.:confused:

[AZEqualizer]

Aptera in the AutoXPrize thread (http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218)