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View Full Version : Perceptions Observations and Imagination.



AZEqualizer
11-20-2007, 03:08 PM
Now this in not meant to be an attack on anyone and the intent behind this is to help think out of the box and maybe to point out that our imagination sees things with a different eye than true experience.

I spend a great deal of time driving while looking out a slit that is approximately 9x4 inches, I also spend 90 % of the time with both hands on the steering mechanism and both feet near other controls. I have a whole lot of wind that hits me and I am effected by all environmental changes. Admittedly the slit is about 2 ˝ inches from my eyes so it is not as restricted as you might imagine. I’m of course talking about driving a motorcycle and I have two different ones I use depending on what I am doing. One has a fairing and one just a clear windscreen. I am also wearing a full face helmet with a face shield.


I was driving a friend’s car the other day it was a late model hard top Camaro. The driver has a pretty good feel of roominess but my view of the outside world was somewhat limited. The raked out windshield with the hood and the dash that seemed to go on forever…. The wide C Pillars and the laid down rear window with restricted view of it by the front seats, sure did narrow my connection and view to the outside world. Maybe if it had t Tops like this one it would change my perspective inside the car. Oh yea the window ledge came up to the same height as the bottom of the headrest.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/1996_Chevrolet_Camaro_in_Venice%2C_California.jpg



Now I also used to own a Toyota MR2 the second Generation often referred to as the jelly bean shape. It sat low and had a feeling of wearing the car. It was probably on the top of my list for fun cars to drive and I had no problems doing long distances in it. It had a T top with clear panels and lots of glass wrapped all around the interior. It had a tremendous open feel to it even when closed up because of all the glass. I actually had the T tops out more in it than I had the top down on most of the convertibles I had. But still at most speeds above 40 I had the windows up and either the heat or air conditioning on … maybe at times I had only the vent on but that is more because I live in Arizona.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Toyota_mr2_sw20_front_left_3.jpg/800px-Toyota_mr2_sw20_front_left_3.jpg



Oh yes convertibles –Top down and glass up most of the time I was doing above 40MPH. And like the MR2 - the heat or air conditioning on … maybe at times I had only the vent, once again it had a lot to do with living in Arizona. And the women in the car always wanted the windows up to get an air bubble in the car so the wind didn’t run havoc with their hair.
I am thinking about this comparison and the open feel I get on a motorcycle and I look to my left and my right and see that I can’t see all that far down while looking to the side (plus you can’t do it very long if you plan on surviving) I realize something … If I have a lot of glass around me and had some panels below me like in the D with the lower clear panels I would have a similar illusion.



http://www.likemyart.com/COH/JurisV1.jpg


Think about it … you don’t have to agree… but keep your mind open and remember you drive from the inside and the V1 isn’t much wider in the cockpit than my motorcycle…remember the picture someone did with the v1 and the mini cooper. Is that illusion similar to the vision I have on my Bike … I think so…. But it is my opinion.

As kind of an aside: Remember that it is hard to define a relationship to space without something to compare to that is a known and at known distances. It is how they fool you in the movies and pictures.

rogwild
01-11-2008, 05:09 AM
OK, here is my go at it using Howard sitting in a Carver One, and 'guess-ti-mating' how high the lower door sill would be on the "D" model. This is based on Howard sitting in the front of the seating 'buck', the height of his shoulders, the steering wheel pictured, and the opening at the top of the window. Just my 'best guess' (may be way off):confused:, but it shows the CONCEPT of the 'downward side blind spot' caused by raising the window sill. Anyone 2-3" shorter than Howard would have a very significant 'blind spot', in my opinion. Maybe they could include LA phone books, for shorter drivers.

p.s. Not perception, just geometry.

Bladerunner
01-11-2008, 10:05 AM
Even the seats in my Hyundai can move up and down as well as back and forth and change the angle. and probably 32 other things that I haven't mentioned.
I don't think Ian and group are that stupid to consider a solution for only an average hight driver.

jmeineck
01-11-2008, 10:15 AM
Bladerunner,

I agree VV design team would not let that happen. And Ian who has actually sat in the seat buck has already posted that there is good visibility in both C and D.

Mark Tomlinson
01-11-2008, 04:00 PM
I know Ian points out that the windows are closer and don't need to be as tall. But the one thing I haven't heard mention is that this thing tilts. When I'm tilted to the left, the right window is tilted upward and I lose visability on that side. That's why I want the window sill lower.

AZEqualizer
01-11-2008, 04:36 PM
When your in the tilt (because your going to be turning) your looking out the front windscreen (this is your main focus when turning tilted or should be or you'll soon be looking out the back of an ambulance.) and the top of the side window not the bottom. If you were looking out the lower part you would be better off with the clear lower panels. But once again this is not something a driver would do in a turn or swoop. (other than a quick glance maybe at your mirror but that is done mostly before the tilt)

jmeineck
01-12-2008, 12:17 AM
AZEqualizer,

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!! When I took the motorcycle riding training course so I could get my indorsement. We were taught to look out ahead in the turn to where you are trying to get to because it is easier to follow the correct line through the turn. All of the looking around so that you know it is safe to make the turn happens before you start the turn.

AZEqualizer
01-12-2008, 10:31 AM
Eyes go and body follows.... much like accident avoidance. Look where you want to go not what your trying to avoid.

rogwild
01-12-2008, 07:46 PM
I agree with the above 100%, taught/practiced at my MC course also. The only caveat, in order to 'avoid' a hazard, you have to 'see' it, FIRST!

AZEqualizer
01-15-2008, 01:41 PM
Has anyone noticed that on C the window sill line on each side is different?? Pictures of the left side show it rising and then falling again before it gets to the back (this appears on the computer images too), whilst pictures of the right side show it just rising. {Posted: 2008-01-14 FTR Site}


Yes that is weird ... the door side is different. - of course since it is only a mock up maybe it was done this way to look at how both revisions would look in 3D ...
It may be an optical illusion but it also looks in the foam model that the window goes further down the door.
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/66.jpg
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/66.jpg
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/71.jpg
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/71.jpg
The 3D renderings show it the same in these two pictures:
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/Studio_1_Concept_C.jpg
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/Studio_1_Concept_C.jpg
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/Studio_2_Concept_C.jpg
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/Studio_2_Concept_C.jpg

Did I mention how I hate bbPress and their Picture embedding or lack there of?

You know joduddridge maybe that is why this picture looks (top one) more pregnant guppy like (BTW this one looks like there is not enough Door for this window to go all the way down.

http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/Retouched_Concept_C.jpg

http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/Retouched_Concept_C.jpg
and this one looks cleaner of the C model....
http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/Retouched_D_with_C.jpg

http://www.flytheroad.com/1_4_07_post/Retouched_D_with_C.jpg

It is too DL Pacer fishbowl and the other is more traditional size.... I though maybe it was the camera angle but doing a rough size comparison to the rest of the door.... the bottom vehicle C (with the two C & D together) has a smaller window.
AMC DL Pacer
http://www.amcpacer.com/images/archives/orange1.jpg
{Posted: 2008-01-14 FTR Site}

...yeah i noticed that the are different on the two sides also. and I'm willing to bet they wanted to see both windows in full scale without having to make two otherwise identical models. Its what I'd do.

"You win the bet Monev. That's exactly what we did." IanBruce {Posted: 2008-01-15 FTR Site}

Lumberjack
01-15-2008, 06:57 PM
Id watch the cracks about the pacer.... I have never been in a car with so much seating space.....

tugboatwilly
01-15-2008, 10:44 PM
Which is very important to thoes of us with big seats.