Ethanol vs Diesel

[WattGas?]

It's probably too late for a diesel genset on the V1, but this is still an interesting read:

"Ethanol E85 fuel loses cost-benefit test to diesel"


Anything's better than ethanol blend E85, even ordinary gasoline, a new cost-benefit analysis of alternative fuels by researcher John Graham at the Pardee Rand Graduate School finds.


Diesels scored highest, surprising even the researchers. "We were kind of expecting that hybrids would outperform diesels when we went into the study. It's close, but the advanced diesel" provides better performance and fuel economy for the price, he says.
Full article:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2007-11-29-e85-ethanol_N.htm


Ethanol is just an inferior fuel. If it was any good, it would already be in wide use...

[Mark Tomlinson]

No, the problem with diesel on the V1 is finding a small diesel engine that meets California's emissions regulations. Aptera had to drop the diesel too. And Volkswagen pulled their TDIs off the market until they could work out the emissions issue as well (the plan is for 2009). I think the issue is NOx.

But yes, ethanol is crap fuel. Bad for the environment, bad for performance, and bad for the price of corn. It's sort of the new hydrogen, except that it's already in the marketplace.

[RAN]

I've been thinking about the CA emissions vis-a-vis diesels and it occurs to me that motorcycles have much less stringent emissions requirements than do cars. Since the V-1 will be classified as a motorcycle, shouldn't it be easier to get a diesel certified for it?

Also, since the genset engine will only be running half the time, wouldn't it be only fair to halve whatever numbers the diesel pulls on the emissions test? (I know, good luck getting a bunch of bureaucrats to understand *that* concept!)

It would be nice if the other 45 states could have a diesel genset. Let CA eat gas! :-)

Rick

[Mark Tomlinson]

The Aptera TYP-1 is also a three-wheeled vehicle classified as a motorcycle. They specifically mention on their site (http://www.aptera.com/ask.php) that they had to drop the diesel because "It's proven impossible for us to find a suitable small Diesel engine that passes California emissions...".

[Mark Tomlinson]

Also, on ethanol, see my post on Mixalco (http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44). There are alcohol alternatives that are being developed which have far less impact, perform better, and are more cost effective than ethanol.

All in all, I think, like the beginning of the Twentieth Century was glory days for gasoline and the ICE, the dawning of the Twenty-First Century will be the glory days of alternative fuels and alternatives to the ICE.

[WattGas?]

Ah, yes, the California Emissions, I'd forgotten, thank you...

This leaves me wondering, how modular is the design? Probably not for the first production model, but perhaps in the future, could different components -- gensets, flex/diesel ICE's, batteries, hypercapacitors, Mr. Fusion (ha ha) all be interchangeable and/or reconfigurable on an aftermarket basis to suit the particular needs of that market?


...The dawning of the Twenty-First Century will be the glory days of alternative fuels and alternatives to the ICE. That's the truth! Alternative fuels are at best a transition, though. The whole concept of "combustion" has to be scrapped eventually... The interesting bit is exactly how soon does "eventually" come, and what adventures will we have getting there?

[RAN]

A few of us have suggested that the batteries/genset be modular so they can be switched around to suit individual needs. If the Q100 could be configured to run, say 80 miles on batteries with the genset removed, I'd never need the ICE except for out of town trips (and to 'fly' it home :-)

[Billy]

Hey RAN, your onto something there. I agree, diesel is the way to go, the diesel genset would be more effieient, and they should look that way a little bit more. The cleanest diesel that came out in '01 was the Isuzu, you guys would know it as the Duramax in the GM trucks.:IDEA:

Isuzu makes little itty bitty 2 cylinder diesel.