Carver in financial difficulties

[Chrisonwheels]

Carver have had their assets frozen by the Dutch Treasury Office. They admitted it when I asked for the refund of my deposit...
Things are looking bad for them.
It's a great pity because I have been in contact with them for about six years, waiting for an adapted version that I could drive without the use of my legs (I'm paraplegic).
It's not that I want to cause them trouble, but I don't want others losing out like I (seemingly) have.

[Chrisonwheels]

No surprise, really, but they have had their assets frozen by the Dutch Treasury...
Had the information directly from Riko Kruit, the sales manager.
It's not looking good for them.
Hope it doesn't affect the Persu thing.

[Derwin]

I merged your two posts into one thread.

I have been in contact several times in the past with Riko Kruit. I'm kind of surprised to hear that their assets have been fronzen, though.

Can you give us anymore details?

In regards to this affecting Persu.... I don't see how it will. Persu is a completely separate company than Carver.

Derwin

[NortonF1]

That is no surprise if You consider what kind of quality and owner support they offer for a ridicoulusly high priced vehicle!

But if they go into bancrupcy eventually the value of my Carver One could rise in the future, who knows?

Rgds Hans

[rogwild]

I just hope that if they do go into bankruptcy, that the courts will not put a 'hold' or 'cease and desist' order on all companies that have financial agreements with Carver (ie. VV=Pm) to not produce or exercise their copyright/patent agreements until after all creditors have been satisfied.bang:h:1 That could take years (maybe decades).r:a:n:t:2:101
Lets pray that this 'freeze' only affects the Carver vehicle 'production' portion of the company and not the part that VV/PM has the agreement with, otherwise the DVC technology could be tied up in the courts for.......??????:o

I doubt that PM will 'comment' on this development, so we won't be sure until the first Persu Hybrid rolls of the assembly line, or PM quits answering their emails and phones.......Hummm anyone have contact with them lately????

[waboom]

Keep in mind that the agreement between Persu and Carver included Carver owning a percentage of Persu. So Persu will probably have to deal with the Dutch creditors if Carver does indeed go into bankruptcy. Hope it doesn't come to that.

[Derwin]

Keep in mind that the agreement between Persu and Carver included Carver owning a percentage of Persu.

Owning a PERCENTAGE of Persu? I don't recall that. I know they signed a contract to USE the tilting technology, and got it for a rather good price, but I don't recall any "percentages" being involved.

Please post the reference here if you can.

Maybe I'm just forgetting this....it comes with old age! wh;aa;aa;t1

Derwin

[waboom]

It was in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/smallbusiness/14cars.html?_r=2&oref=slogin) article about Venture Vehicles:


[Ian] and Mr. Levine traveled to Dordrecht, south of Rotterdam, where they signed a licensing agreement with Carver Engineering for a down payment of less than six figures, future payments, equity in the company and, eventually, royalty fees. In return, they obtained the North American and South American rights to sell the hybrid, electric and biofuel versions of a tilt-based car.

[Derwin]

Wow! I actually DO remember that being post a LONG time ago, but I had completely forgot about it. What stuck in my memory was that they paid "less than six figures", which sound pretty cheap.

But you right.... equity in the company, and royalty fees.... This may present a problem. But I don't really know.

I would HOPE that Persu officials will tell us something about this. But, as always, hope springs eternal!

Thanks for that reminder, waboom.

Derwin

[ziggy951]

A problem? If they own part of the company they may not have to pay any royalties for the technology now. I dont know how similar the system is ver there but it may workout in a good way when they sell off the assets. Always find the possibility of "the bright side".

:IDEA:


Z

[Derwin]

Zig,

When a company goes into bankruptcy, it's assets are disbursed to its creditors. Believe me, the tilting technology, and the contract with Persu is indeed any asset. And there will be SOMEBODY who owns it, even if Carver no longer exists. There's no way Persu will be free from their obligation.

Derwin

[Rob Janssen]

All,

The item with the Dutch treasury is under control and not a serious issue anymore.

Also, for those who are worried about Persu we can inform you that Carver
Europe bv is a different company and is independent from the company that is
collaborating with Persu.


Any direct questions can be directed to w.verheul@carver-europe.com (w.verheul@carver-europe.com).



Wim Verheul

CEO DVC Technologies NV

[Miracleman89]

Rob, thank you very much for coming here and clearing this issue up! Please feel free to drop in and join the conversation anytime!!!! You are most welcome here at the "Fly The Road Club"! Also if you are in regular contact with Wim let him know we would be honored to have him join as well!

[Derwin]

Rob,

Welcome to the club! wel;co;m;e101))

On behalf of all admins, as well as all the members, I want to THANK YOU for dropping by and giving us this information. It's good to hear that Carver has cleared up any difficulties, and it's also very good to hear that the company having problems was/is an entirely different company than that involved with Persu.

I think I can speak for most people here in wishing you and the Carver company well. We all hope to see you bringing your vehicle to the American market some day.

Again, welcome to the club.

Derwin

[Riko Kruit]

Looks like Rob is a bit quicker than I am :LOL:.
I am glad everything is clear now.


Let's get as many Carvers on the road as we can!

[Derwin]

Good to hear, Riko!

Please send my Carver to Chicago ASAP. thu:mbs:up:22

Thanks.

Derwin

[NortonF1]

@ Chrissonwheels:

They should be able to refund Your money if the statements are true, please let us know if they do that!

Regards Hans

[Chrisonwheels]

That's great news, Rob and Riko. -Can you resurrect my good faith in Carver and let me have my refund now please?

[NortonF1]

@Crisonwheels:

Did You get Your money back by now?

Regards Hans

[Chrisonwheels]

Guess what? It seems that they're not talking to me now... no replies to my emails. It's very disappointing behaviour from a company I had so much faith in.
Come on, Mr Verheul, be fair and give me my money back; you know it makes sense.

[Derwin]

Chrisonwheels.... Have you tried contacting Riko? He, along with some others at Carver Europe, are members of this club. I think they would be happy to talk with you and at least hear your problems.

Derwin

[Chrisonwheels]

Riko is lying low...
He knows all about my situation.

[Derwin]

Riko is lying low...

He knows all about my situation.

Please explain to the rest of us the details of your situation. I think we would all like to know what has happened.

Riko and those at Carver also have a right to post a response.

But we would be very interested to know what you are referring to.

Thanks.

Derwin

[NortonF1]

@Derwin:

When will You start to realize that Carver is treating customers with little respect?

The only way to get them moving is to sue them and that is what I am doing right now!

Also I have heard rumours that the production of Carver One has been stopped, I would be happy to hear from Carver officials to prove me wrong!

[Derwin]

@Derwin:

When will You start to realize that Carver is treating customers with little respect?

The only way to get them moving is to sue them and that is what I am doing right now!

Also I have heard rumours that the production of Carver One has been stopped, I would be happy to hear from Carver officials to prove me wrong!

Norton, I will NEVER "realize" this until I am presented with some hard facts. So far all we have heard is a few complaints from a couple customers. Heck, Ford and Chevy get THOUSANDS of complaints daily! This doesn't make them evil!

For a person to come to this club and simply post that Carver is bad, or Carver has done them wrong, without presenting the details, is simply not enough. If you expect me, or any other club members, to jump on the "Carver is bad" bandwagon, the your going to have to present us with a few details and facts. I don't think that's asking too much, do you?

As of now I have no clue about Carver being disrespectful to its customers, other than a couple people that have posted general statements to that affect.

So, if you, or anyone else, wishes to present your stories, IN DETAIL, to this club, we will be very welcome to hear what you have to say. And, who knows, maybe something GOOD will come of it!

Derwin

[danbucks]

Where's the love? *hic*
I think I need a :Beer:
(now wait a minute, I just noticed this guy never quits, he keeps drinking - AWESOME!)

[Chrisonwheels]

To expand on what it says in the first post in this thread: I was in discussion with them about supplying me with a modified Carver (I'm paraplegic), which Frank Vermeulen and Harry Kroonen were very supportive with. At the time it was agreed that the deposit was for a car that was to be modified and that if this was not possible I would be able to have it refunded. We ended up stuck in a dead end (not entirely Carver's fault), this was back in 2006. Frank said that they were working on a new prototype with a CVC transmission that would solve the problems.
As time has passed it has become more and more obvious that nothing is happening, or likely to happen with the development of the new vehicle so in February I asked for my original deposit back. I liaised with Riko as Frank was no longer in charge of things. They started off by saying that they were trying to locate it in their records so I sent a copy of the original receipt to them, then they changed the reason by saying that it was because the Dutch Treasury had frozen their assets.
It would be great for them to put an end to this sorry tale by just doing the right, fair and legal thing...

[Derwin]

Chris,

If that's the case, and you have documents to prove it, then I don't see how they can refuse to give you a refund of your deposit.

Thanks for sharing a few details with us. Now I would like to see Riko, or someone else from Carver, post a reply.

Derwin

[NortonF1]

Riko - are You still with us or are You guys already out of business????

Ore maybe in June??

Regards Hans

[MVRacing]

Riko - are You still with us or are You guys already out of business????

Ore maybe in June??

Regards Hans


Doubt you will get any reply here ... Riko hasn't logged on since 17 June 2008. Of course it is possible that he is visiting without signing in. du:n:n:o(

[Derwin]

Doubt you will get any reply here ... Riko hasn't logged on since 17 June 2008. Of course it is possible that he is visiting without signing in. du:n:n:o(

That's not true. Riko just logged in yesterday, and has been peeking in at the club very often since becoming a member.

I think you were looking at another member with the username "riko". But that is either not the correct person, or Riko simply created 2 accounts. But the one that is with Carver Europe is Riko Kruit, and he has been logging in quite a lot.

Derwin

UPDATE..... I JUST CHECKED THE EMAILS FOR BOTH ACCOUNTS, AND THEY ARE BOTH RIKO KRUIT OF CARVER. RIKO OBVIOUSLY CREATED A SECOND ACCOUNT EARLIER THIS YEAR. BUT THEY ARE INDEED BOTH RIKO KRUIT, AND HAVE A CARVER EMAIL ADDRESS TO VERIFY.

[MVRacing]

My appologies for not doing full research o:o:p:s12 We should delete one of the accounts.


Deleted the unused account.

[NortonF1]

We are still waiting for a reply from any Carver official.....

(and probably will be for longer - sorry for You, Chrisonwheels, I think if You want Your money back You will have to sue them.... and don´t wait too long, they might not be there much longer!)

Regards Hans

[carverconcept]

Hey guys,

in the meantime I've had talks to some Carver distributors and it is very likely that Carver Europe BV will declare bankruptcy.

And there will be a new Carver One company which is owned by the Carver factory in Germany and Mr Stüdemann, Carver Germany.

It seems that Carver Netherlands will focuse on selling DVC and licenses in the future.

No wonder after all this mismanagement. I am waiting for over 6 month that the german distributor Mr. Stüdemann is helping me fixing my technical issues with one of my Carver. I will post you all the details when I get the time so you can have some laughs. Carver One owners have only one choice: Help yourself. We all got to work on that and I will keep you posted.

I think this is no good news for the Carver community. Or Mr. Stüdemann will finally decide to work for, and not against the Carver fans.

We will see what's really happening. Still rumours.

[Derwin]

Hey guys,

in the meantime I've had talks to some Carver distributors and it is very likely that Carver Europe BV will declare bankruptcy.



I have also heard this from one of my sources in Europe.

As of now, I am convinced that Carver has indeed been mismanaged and will be filing for bankruptcy very soon.

We'll post it here when it becomes "official".

Derwin

[carverconcept]

I think some guys are getting nervous in this Carver organization - or what a nice way of confirming rumours 2thumb:up

My family received a phone call from Mr Stüdemann threatening that they would sue me for publisihing the bankruptcy rumours. Hey, would you please call me directly to tell me!

And I am wondering what they will sue me and my family for?! For telling people the truth? So we are supposed to buy products from this company but to be discret about any negative development or how would you call that?

Well, I guess this should be part of the so called freedom of speach. Very surprised indeed :threadjacked:

[Derwin]

My family received a phone call from Mr Stüdemann threatening that they would sue me for publisihing the bankruptcy rumours.

And I am wondering what they will sue me and my family for?! :threadjacked:


I'm no lawyer, but I think it's pretty safe to say that they have no grounds whatsoever for a lawsuit against you. Unless, of course, you may be an official employee of Carver, and signed some kind of non-disclosure agreement.

And don't worry, you did NOT hijack this thread! This thread is for the discussion of any and all Carver financial difficulties.

Derwin

[Riko Kruit]

Come on guys, may I be on a business trip or not? ;-)

First let me confirm that we have the tax issues under control.
That does not mean that we are out of the financial bad weather (like all other car brands at the moment). However, we have restarted production and the future looks gright again, but the end of the tunnel is still some miles away.

To Chris: You know what we (Frank and I) have promised you --> we will pay you back. At this moment however it is impossible, we need all our funds and energy to re-ramp.

To Norton: Please do not act like a child. You never call me back, you never give me any replies. And last but not least: you are ruining your own business. I really do not get it.

Please keep up the good works here in/on the forum, but I must say I get a littlebit sick of all the negative posts about the company etcetera. We have 240 vehicles driving around in the world and only two people are complaining and complaining. All others are happy with their vehicle and we support and service them with respect (from both sides).

[WarpedOne]

Riko, I for one appretiate your response and wish you much success!

[NortonF1]

@Riko:

I think You got me mixed up with Carverconcept, I dont have a business running with my Carver One.

But I am NOT getting any help from Carver, especially Carver Germany alias Harry S. as he refuses to do any warranty repairs on my vehicle and I have to sue him to do so.

Also Carver is refusing to borrow out the necessary tools to Hoell in Hofheim to do a proper wheel alignment on my vehicle after the accident repair that has been carried out.

We have the technical Information now how its done and all we need is the tools...

Regards Hans

[carverconcept]

As NortonF1 is mentioning correctly our local contact will always be the distributor and in fact, this is what Riko and Carver Europe always made very clear.

I think my and NortonF1's personal experience is that Carver Germany is covering up problems (I don't care if it's technically or financially) which obviously shouldn't be the case . Instead they should be taken care of professionally. For example pro-actively calling people when a recall has to be done. Or fixing issues when they're discovered and the car is still under warranty. And finding us local workshops.

This was done at the beginning with my Carvers but stopped last year, after raising "wrong" and uncomfortable questions. It's all written down and Mr Stüdemanns solicitor replied with the following words: "The Carver One is a small production car and problems are supposed to be normal with this sort of thing." Please don't let me describe how I had to suffer with VIN046.

Besides, I am very certain that it's not only me and NortonF1 having issues here and there, I think it's just that people get frustrated and most of them leave it like it is. In fact I had enough conversations to be sure of that.

Anyways, I don't think this is the subject of this thread. I am surpised that Riko is not mentioning a word about those rumours. What actually is going on with Carver Europe?! As a Carver owner I would like to know if I can get parts and support in the future and from whom?

Even if I do have issues with my Carver I am very interested that the product will be alive and I wish anyone would try and use the fans feedback instead of defending thereselfs all the time instead.

An of course providing owners with technical informations and knowledge to be able to keep their vehicle up and running.

I am often surprised about myself that I am still up for this making promotion for this product even though you don't get any support neither from the distributor nor the manufacture.

Carver on!

[Riko Kruit]

@Riko:

But I am NOT getting any help from Carver, especially Carver Germany alias Harry S. as he refuses to do any warranty repairs on my vehicle and I have to sue him to do so.



You have never called me, you have only sent me an fax of your lawyer and never contacted me afterwards. We had some e-mail communication about your Carver, but you did not want to accept our offer. And about the repairs I hear another story..


@Riko:

Also Carver is refusing to borrow out the necessary tools to Hoell in Hofheim to do a proper wheel alignment on my vehicle after the accident repair that has been carried out.



Hoell is not a Carver workshop. You would need to go to a certified Carver workshop. I offered you to pick up your Carver and repair it at our place. Any warranty issues would be paid by Carver Europe, any other stuff should be paid by the client. Looks like fair to me, but no, you did not accept it. I can do no more than offer you my help and pay for any warranty issues. Sorry.

I feel sorry for you, but you make the solution to your so called problem impossible YOURSELF.

Again, I will quit the discussion here because it is leading to nowhere.
Sorry for all you followers of this "discussion".

Anyone who is interested in the real story can contact me through PM.

[Riko Kruit]

@carverconcept:

**taken away after reconsideration and a coffee**

the carver is a small production vehicle and NOT A CAR. it is simply so technically difficult that, if you would like to keep driving securely, it HAS to be serviced by carver technicians. not that we like that so much, but we want our customers to drive safely and UNDERSTAND that it is not a mass-product.

again, I will quit the discussion here because it is leading to nowhere.
sorry for all you followers of this "discussion".

anyone who is interested in the real story can contact me through PM.

[Derwin]

@carverconcept:

do yourself a very big favour; sell your carver to someone who understands it is not a volkswagen, porsche, fiat, subaru, hummer, ferrari or what other BIG brandname we could get up with and GET A LIFE!

Riko,

Look...I have always supported you, and even have given Carver every benefit of every doubt. But this comment is not very nice. Actually, I cannot even imagine a person making such a statement from ANY company selling a product to the public. I think it is in very bad taste, to say the least.

I, for one, would like to hear the "real story" for myself. I'll PM you to see what you have to say.

Derwin

[Riko Kruit]

i think you are right. i apologise for the post.

[NortonF1]

@Riko:

It seems You don´t want to understand what Carverconcept and I (Your customers!) want: We want a nearby garage that can solve all our small (and eventually big) problems and not have to come to the Netherlands or Harry S.´s backdoor garage 250 km away to have our Carver Ones maintaned and taken care of.

Hoell in Hofheim have proved that they indeed can repair and rebuild a Carver One to perfection, my Carver One is better then it was before the accident, and the only thing that ist missing is a wheel adjustment, and as mentioned in another thread that is a piece of cake IF You have the tools and the instruction how it has to be done!

If You want to cooperate then step forward and supply the neccessary tools to Hoell, it is much easier to move the tools thent to move my carver.

Thanks regards Hans

[carverconcept]

There you go. As it seems Riko's real story is so secret that I'll better prepare my own real story and copy it in a new threat. But will take me some time considering all my suffering visit's in the "certified" Carver workshop from Carver Germany. I was hoping to avoid that but if you want so...

Oh yes, you did offer me to examine my vehicle but please understand that due to my experience with your service network I prefer an independent expert witness on this. The car is grounded for more than 6 month. No one were able to take the car nor to deliver any useful information how to mend the car although it's obvious that this problem is within guarantee (the car is less then two years old and the DVC system doesn't tilt, it's just beeping). I am still fighting for another guarantee case (same car) which is about a broken gear cable and until today the German distributor couldn't tell me any reasons why it hasn't been payed completely by you so charged me for it (this was in September 2008, so cu you at court, no way I am paying for your bad engineering). So do you really think I am giving you my car without letting an expert witness look at it beforehand. I just don't trust any of you guys. No way!

I rather pay my workshop to fix all this then giving anyone of you my car (yes, I do call it a car as it has wheels and no wings or anything else) and getting told that I've used it wrong or it was driven by too much people (that's another theory Mr. Stüdemann had, isn't it funny) and to receive another invoice from you despite warranty coverage.

Still haven't heard the "real story" about Carver Europe's future by the way... It's not the service sector, isn't it :whoohoo:

[Derwin]

I am obviously an "outsider" in regards to both of your situations, but it seems to me that taking your vehicles to an authorized service-center is not too much to ask.

Also, I have been told that both of you have been in collisions with your vehicles which caused a great deal of damage. Is damage done in a collision under warranty?

Please feel free to post any and all information about both your cases.

It is interesting reading, to say the least. sitpopbackcorn

Derwin

[Riko Kruit]

Please guys.. I absolutely do not understand where you are going..

I will not post any replies on these messages again.
For the real story anyone can call me on 0031 78 618 30 66.

[Derwin]

I also think this needs to stop, unless some concrete evidence can be provided.

I have been told that any and all repair work from ACCIDENTS that you guys have been in, can be done by HOELL. But both of you have a bad reputation due to non-payment of services rendered to you. HOELL also admits that they need a bit of training before doing the more complex repairs.

HOELL has actually tried to help you, but they don't want to warranty their work. But if you get the work done by them, it does not seem fair for you to go to RIKO/Carver and ask THEM to pay! Actually, that seems a bit ridiculous if you ask me.

If you have any other information, feel free to post it. But asking Carver to do things that are way out of the ordinary, just doesn't seem reasonable. Heck, I don't think that FORD or CHEVY would cover damages done to a vehicle that was in a collision. It just doesn't seem to be something that would be covered by ANY warranty!

Keep the comments coming.... sitpopbackcorn

Derwin

[carverconcept]

Derwin, the Carver VIN046 I am talking about has never had any accident. I've brought this Carver to the only workshop in Germany more than 10 times and every time I came back home and had the same or a another issue (my god, you really want me to put down all the issues I had - and I will!).

I've spent a lot of time or had to engage someone to drive the car to this works, had to pay a train ticket back or to get a 2nd car. I've provided them with another of my carvers so they repaired it and I payed for it (another story - part delivery took them almost 3 month).

And in the end they wanted me to pay for things (still VIN046) which are clearly under warranty.

Norton's Carver had an accident but the issues he had were before that accident and there are german court decisions that if a car was fully rebuilt after an accident it is still under warranty.

Besides, this is not a problem of "who is right or wrong". This is about a german distributor who wants to make money with mending carvers in his workshop and trying to stop competition (even if it's a small market, there are enough Carvers in Germany to justify more than one workshop).

I gave him over 2 years time to find workshops and even helped him by recommending places. First he was too occupied, then he said the workshop is not interested because they said they wanted to see the conditions first (which he denied to show them).

You think this is kids stuff? Then you haven't owned a Carver ;-)

But sorry for asking, aren't we discussing the financial difficulties of Carver Europe?

[SafetyMan]

Check your DVC sensor. There should be a reset for the circuit. Since the unit was in a collision, the tilt level indicator is probably out of alignment, check it.

[SafetyMan]

OOps, sorry forgot to attache where my post applied.

"(the car is less then two years old and the DVC system doesn't tilt, it's just beeping)."

[carverconcept]

But both of you have a bad reputation due to non-payment of services rendered to you

This is the standard respond of Carver Germany and Carver Europe, if they want to cover up issues with their product quality.

I've payed all the valid invoices I've ever received. As I mentioned before I haven't payed for the gear cable as this clearly shouldn't break within 1 year. As I said, I reminded the german distributor several times but he could never explain me why this isn't warranty. And it certainly should!

This company is amazing! I can tell you one thing: From now on I will post everything here. Before I told myself that it's not worth it and they deserve better. But those statements tell me that they don't.

I've invested 100.000 of Euro in this business and you think that's why I keep quiet. No way!

[carverconcept]

Thanks SafetyMan, we've checked the carver today. I will hopefully know more soon and let you know...

[rickb]

This is discussion that makes me question the DVC System. Is the DVC System overall reliable or have there been numerous recalls due to mechanical failure. Also, is the "level indicator" overly sensiitve requiring frequent adjustment and maintenance. I would be disappointed to discover similar warranty and service issues with my 2012 Persu Hybrid. Hopefully, the problem is only with the two Carvers being discussed and not common among Carver Owners.

[NortonF1]

This is discussion that makes me question the DVC System. Is the DVC System overall reliable or have there been numerous recalls due to mechanical failure. Also, is the "level indicator" overly sensiitve requiring frequent adjustment and maintenance. I would be disappointed to discover similar warranty and service issues with my 2012 Persu Hybrid. Hopefully, the problem is only with the two Carvers being discussed and not common among Carver Owners.

From my experience the DVC could be reliable if there was a toothed belt to the hydraulic pump that powers the DVC (and the power steering). Meaurements have shown that the pump takes up to 5kW (appr 7hp!) from the engine when operating hard, and that just seems to be too much for the V-belt that is used on the Carver One.

Somebody (I promised to keep the source for myself for now) has developed such a toothed belt drive and Carver is aware of this and I think that, after there have been accidents already due to failures of the DVC system they should better recall all vehicles and do a retrofit, but they refuse to do that until now.

Maybe that has to be decided in court, too.

Regards Hans

[NortonF1]

@Derwin: Hoell gives a warranty of 3 (three!) Years for all the repair work they do.

All the warranty issues that I have had were there BEFORE the accident, the list was 27 items, my Carver One was in Harry S.´s backdoor garage for almost 4 weeks, and after that just 10 of the 27 items had been repaired, that is why I refuse to drive my Carver One there again!

Regards Hans

BTW: This is Hoell´s website:

http://www.hoell-und-motschmann.de/

The "Certified" Carver Shop doesnt even have a website

[carverconcept]

This is discussion that makes me question the DVC System. Is the DVC System overall reliable or have there been numerous recalls due to mechanical failure. Also, is the "level indicator" overly sensiitve requiring frequent adjustment and maintenance. I would be disappointed to discover similar warranty and service issues with my 2012 Persu Hybrid. Hopefully, the problem is only with the two Carvers being discussed and not common among Carver Owners.

There will be always something to improve. I think it's common procedure in those days industries that you don't perfect a product as you used to do before.

But I still would have wished that Carver did a bit more product testing or at least interviewed their clients. My Carver was one of the first modells and even though I am one of the only Carver owners having 35.000km on the clock no one ever asked me, how the car goes.

I also have a newer modell and even after 20.000km no issues with the DVC yet.

Apart from the belt drive (yes, this is super critical and there were accidents already. It also makes the drive smoother by the way, we will let anyone know the price as soon as we have finished the tests).

I am more concerned about other things like:

- leaking roofs
- defective door mechanism
- corrosion all over
- consumption (looking forward to see the results of the Persu)
- depending on the tyre front wheel need to be changed to often
- braking system not state of the art, especially when it's wet
- no Anti-Lock-System / no Electronic-Stability-Program
- parts not available at any automobile trade shops
- hydraulic oil far too expensive (daylight robbery) - we've found an alternative oil and currently testing it - price will be much cheaper
- car is not well unshielded
- problematic gear box / gear shifting gate
- clutch cylinder construction is counterproductive
- hand break construction is counterproductive

And a few more things I haven't mentioned here...

Well, I might stand all this if they would release at least all the technical informations for each owner.

But what gives us hope is that there is a great carver community in this world and we all help each other. With or without Carver Europe or hower they're going to be called in the future! Who cares...

Open Source Carver Rocks! And hopefully a Persu Hybrid soon!

[carverconcept]

I forgot to mention some important issues with my problematic Carver (some of them are still with the new one):

- The current belt-drive construction has to be checked every few thousand kilometers - which is a real pain but highly recommended (at least from us)
- Radio antenna is just not working at all
- My Radio/CD stopped working again the second time and I got told the same from other Carver owners
- gear cable problematic - at least at the early carvers - or perhaps I've been very unlucky
- hardtop with great wind noise at higher speeds
- No accurately fitting door / no tight fitting of the gaskets

[Derwin]

I forgot to mention some important issues with my problematic Carver (some of them are still with the new one):



Are these problems with the vehicle that you got in a collision with?

Heck, if I crashed with my Chevy Tracker, I'm pretty sure the antenna and radio might not work either!

Derwin

[carverconcept]

The antenna issue is a known issue with each single carver in this world. Besides VIN046 wasn't involved in an accident. The radio just stopped working again, I first thought it's another water leak but it might be something else. I told Stüdemann from Carver Germany but he doesn't give a s...

And I don't actually care as I prefer using my iPod ;-)

[Derwin]

And I don't actually care as I prefer using my iPod ;-)

Good choice on the iPod! =y:

[NortonF1]

@Crisonwheels:

How is that, they are "restructering" Carver with Your Money!

Are You taking part of any maybe future earnings of the Carver company?

Regards Hans

[carverconcept]

I just heared that there are also other Carver distributors/clients they owe money or cars.

But let's give them a chance to pay it back. I will keep you posted as soon as I have more details.

[carverconcept]

I realized that we should open another thread with the subject "Carver owners speak: How they would improve their carver!". This would move the technical issues discussion away from here and we can concentrate on the "financial / bankruptcy issues" subject.

[Derwin]

Listen, fella's, I don't want this turning into an "Anti-Carver" website.

As I have been told a few times by others, there are always 2 SIDES to every story. What has been said here about Carver may have bits of truth to it, but may also have other explanations.

The point is... We just don't want to go too far off the deep end in criticism, since this is (after all) an enthusiasts website. If anybody has any legal problems, they should TAKE IT TO COURT, and let the legal system work. Then report back here with the results. Accusations and threats simply are not sufficient.

Derwin

[carverconcept]

Derwin,

please, let me explain again.

We don't want to sue anyone! But there must be a way for Carver owners to be able to get technical informations and parts and a little bit of support from this company in an appropriate way. I have a car grounded for more than 6 month and paying my bank every month not to be able to drive this car due to some selfishly car makers. Paaaa!

It is ridiculous that Carver is telling others luys about their own clients and partners to be able to survive. In fact they haven't payed several partners for month or not delivered their already payed cars. And as we know already from other situations Carver will try everything to pressure their own partners not to tell anyone outside the institution what's really going on.

The reason why this is escalating is because this company and their great german distributor is disastrous and I won't stop telling people the truth until they will start taking care of their clients well. And I promise everyone, I am going to be the first telling you here if the company does do a real effort!

And again, I am very aware of the fact that this discussion shouldn't be about warranty cases and technical matters and instead should focus on that this company is going bust soon.

This is exactly why I was recommending to create another thread to be able to discuss how to improve the product quality of the Carver One. I don't see why Carver owners shouldn't have the right to recommend ideas / solutions to be able to improve the product they've bought.

I will publish you some examples with pictures and explanations when I get the time you will see that it's not some crazy client you're dealing with.

And again, do you really think we spent so much time because we hate this product. We love it and that's why we will do everything to make sure it's going to be supported, and not hold as a secret.

And anyone, please don't get weak because some people in the Carver institution are trying to stop you talking or helping others to talk about this. It's not a crime to talk about problems and there are a lot of ways to fix them, don't you think?

[Derwin]

We don't want to sue anyone!

Well, people have stated repeatedly that they have lawsuits pending in a German court. That is the only reason I brought it up.


This is exactly why I was recommending to create another thread to be able to discuss how to improve the product quality of the Carver One. I don't see why Carver owners shouldn't have the right to recommend ideas / solutions to be able to improve the product they've bought.

Listen, we created an ENTIRE FORUM for Carver owners in this club. You can create any thread that you desire within the Carver forum, and discuss anything that is on your mind. I invite ALL Carver owners to join this club and talk about their ideas/solutions pertaining to this vehicle. That is what this club is all about!


I will publish you some examples with pictures and explanations when I get the time you will see that it's not some crazy client you're dealing with.

Please create a new thread in the Carver forum for this. I really look forward to seeing what you post.


And again, do you really think we spent so much time because we hate this product. We love it and that's why we will do everything to make sure it's going to be supported, and not hold as a secret.

That's good! I'm a big fan of the Carver vehicle also, even though I'm too poor to own one!


And anyone, please don't get weak because some people in the Carver institution are trying to stop you talking or helping others to talk about this. It's not a crime to talk about problems and there are a lot of ways to fix them, don't you think?

Nobody will be "stopped" from talking about their Carver vehicle. I was just hoping that some of you guys would post some POSITIVE things about your vehicle.....like some pictures of you driving in the country or in the city. Vacations with your Carver. And so many other things that are positive. I welcome ALL discussion, but if you "love" your CarverOne so much, then please post some GOOD things as well as the bad.

Let's make this club THE destination for ALL Carver owners. thu:mbs:up:22

Derwin

[carverconcept]

Nice one! Why don't we open a Carver Tour thread, I have hundreds of pictures of lucky Carver One Tour joiners from Germany and Spain. Will post you some nice pieces asap...

[Derwin]

Nice one! Why don't we open a Carver Tour thread, I have hundreds of pictures of lucky Carver One Tour joiners from Germany and Spain. Will post you some nice pieces asap...

OK. Here you go....

http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1730

Derwin

[Chuck]

I don't want this turning into an "Anti-Carver" website.

Unfortunately, to me, the German contributors to this forum have already accomplished this.

I've had this or that issue with my Carver that I'd happily discuss, but I can't help but feel that one of these guys is going to use my innocent comment as a launching point for some or other half-honest complaint.

Both here and on their German website, they carried on a completely negative campaign against the vehicle and the Carver company. I don't doubt for a minute that they helped to frighten people away from the vehicles. It was almost as though they were purposely campaigning against Carver One.

It was their partial honesty and aggressive negativity that made me feel uncomfortable about visiting this site any more.

[NortonF1]

@Chuck:

I think its exactly the other way around: Because Carver offered a lousy support to their customers combined with an unperfect, overpriced product they shovelled their own grave.

That is the real reason why they could not sell the 500 cars they wanted, to my knoledge they have stopped producing Carvers already mid last year, that was long before any negative comments appeared on the club website!

Aside from that, the Carver One is a beautiful machine, I just came back from a trip throug the Taunus mountains and had a lot of fun!

Regards Hans

[Chrisonwheels]

It's official - they are bankrupt.
http://www.ad.nl/economie/3317376/Fabrikant_van_driewieler_Carver_failliet.html0
You'll have to Google translate or similar...
Fantastic vehicle, but not the most honest people to give your money to (but you could say that about almost any businessman I suppose...).

[Chrisonwheels]

Let's hope they get another company resurrected and honour their debts...