Initial Concept

[rogwild]

I think we should have a Thread for "Concept, vehicle performance/specifications".
This would be to discuss the general guidelines and give a basic description of the type, size and capabilities of the vehicle project.

Should it be 1-2-3 person,...front or rear engine,....2F1R or 1F2R wheel design,.....city only or highway capable,......economy or performance oriented,.....'off the shelf' or custom made parts,...... ICE, EV, Hybrid, or ????,........general 'price range' = Luxury vs. Economy,......etc.

[AZEqualizer]

I think until we get the rest of the sub forums figured out this is a good starting topic - so I moved it here

[AZEqualizer]

OK here are my views.

Two person

I want it to tilt - if no tilting I would want a tadpole trike - if a tilter I want it to be wedge shaped with small part to front.

Amount of wheels - as long as it can go to a stable stop quicker than I can make a mistake that is fine with me.

Highway capable.

Economy oriented with some performance when needed.

Should be able to ride in it for at least three hours without needing someone to pour you out and stand you up.

Must have Air conditioning and weather protection

That's my short list.

[JoeU]

Ditto;)e3MoonWalk08s8

[Hoosier]

Basically what AZ said, but I'd add:

Gull-wing doors that won't let rain drop directly into seat.

Stretch it out a little. Give the companion some leg position options.

And definitetly a steering wheel and not a joystick.

[Miracleman89]

Wow, Hey guys!! Sorry I have been off the grid mostly! I just turned in a time card with 114 hours on it!!!! WHEW!!!! If this is serious I have had some ideas on concept vehicles that I would have to sit down and work on! I am no technical engineer but it might spark some creative thinking and might be something everyone would like but require a bit of tweaking to make it more functional!!! One of them is actually a tilting four wheeled vehicle. And yes tandem seating, otherwise people would get sick from all the rising and falling!

[Derwin]

One of them is actually a tilting four wheeled vehicle. And yes tandem seating, otherwise people would get sick from all the rising and falling!


I think we would have to stick with 3 wheels to avoid any problems with registering it with the DOT and the DMV.

[WarpedOne]

After we figure out tilting, making it 3-wheeled is peace of cake.

[Derwin]

I don't see tilting as being a big problem, really. The 3-wheeled scooter that I was marketing actually tilts. Seems to be a pretty easy concept. You can see it at www.ThreeWheelFun.com

Derwin

[WarpedOne]

But does it tilt actively or you have to tilt it via your body?
This second option is not an option for the real thing.

[Derwin]

In the case of the three wheeled scooter, the rider has to lean the body.


But go to the below site, and you'll see that titling three-wheeled vehicles have been designed for many years now. It's just that nobody has had the nerve to bring any of them to market. I'm sure we can find and use one of the configurations from these designs.

http://www.maxmatic.com/ttw_moto.htm

[rogwild]

Nice site Derwin. The majority of these vehicles never made it into 'production', so the inventor may allow his/her design to be used in an 'Open Source' project (just for the recognition). Some may even have their 'plans' for sale for a small fee.
I agree that we will need an 'active' tilting system; don't think we want to have a 'hole in the door' to put our feet out when stopped, especially with a vehicle that may weigh 1,000 lb+.
The 'pivot' design should be fairly easy, while the 'tilt control' will be the major challenge.

[AZEqualizer]

I think we would have to stick with 3 wheels to avoid any problems with registering it with the DOT and the DMV.

I don't know about your state but in Arizona you just have to make a custom vehicle street safe and follow the states requirements for that style vehicle to get it registered. One is not under the same kind of requirements as a vehicle manufacturer if you are making it your self.
Of course there is a lot of other things you have to do including getting a vin number but most are small hurdles.

Of course if you make it a street motorcycle you have fewer things you have to do to fulfill the requirements. But not a whole lot. I had to go through a lot of this stuff when I at one point made a street legal sand rail. Biggest thing (other than making it safe) is to have a book of receipts for all the parts used to build the thing.

[Derwin]

That's good to know, AZE! I always thought that it was a lot more difficult to get a 4-wheeled vehicle (home built) registered, then it is a 3-wheeled (motorcycle type) vehicle registered. If that's not the case, then that's great.

[carverlives]

To help decide on leaner designs, it is possible to test drive one that is currently legal, functional, and rentable- in Frankfurt, Germany. Yes, maybe difficult, expensive etc. but it can be done. You could arrange this test drive through a fellow named Felix at carverlife.com if you are interested. And it is not as expensive as you might think either.

My design vote is an electric Carver, as has already been mentioned. It drives really well, well designed, the dynamic vehicle control translates into great fun and the vehicle only needs a different drive train to be allowed into the States. What is really remarkable is what will eventually NOT be needed if the choice for the drivetrain is to go electric. For example, with the Tesla much transmission weight is theoretically reduced due to it being able to operate in a single speed. And the audacious Audi E-Tron prototype car seems to go one better on the Tesla by having hub electric motors in each wheel. Its like a technological shot across the bow, ie you eliminate the transmission, We'll eliminate both the trannie and the differential, and the transfer case!
Lest I muck up my point here I refer to a little car history: As an ex mechanic I used to see devices that are now history on the cars I worked on. Carbuerators (spelling?) used to deliver fuel, but they wasted it as well. Exit mechanical part, enter electronic fuel injection. Distributors used to spread the spark around but parts would wear out . Exit mechanical part, enter electronic spark spreading to needy cylinders. See where I'm going with this? Audi Engineers are maybe saying via the E-Tron - Transmissions, transfer cases, drive shafts, ring and spider gears, whole differentials and cv joints were nice in their time but would'nt we rather have more batteries to replace the weight (or mass) that is now missing on our electric Audi? Because with more batteries we get the holy grail going of ... more range.

I agree though, with the argument about too much unsprung weight with hub motors. I just figure that if Audi can work out the problems with all those motors having to operate at different rpms due to turns in the roads, it can sort out the unsprung weight dilemma as well. And when you think about it differentials don't always excel in delivering traction when needed, or limited slip wouldnt have been invented- or all wheel drive versus 4 wheel drive. (If you have a car running and in gear up on a hydraulic car lift, and if you are feeling brave that day you can actually completely stop one driven wheel and the wheel on the other side of the car will spin merrily along- it has apparently forgotten you want both drive wheels to do work, egged on no doubt by the ring and spider gears of the venerable differential)

Anyway, someday We may see an Electric BMW Clever or Simple type leaner with not only automated lean control via Vandenbrink DVC, but it will feature no transmission or differential, just Michelin inspired motors in both rear wheels with electronic control for assured and steady traction. Who knows?