The Massive Yet Tiny (MYT) Engine

[RAN]

While looking at the Peraves SuperBall Motor (http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1970) post, I found a link to the MYT engine. (http://www.angellabsllc.com/index.html) I'm not a fan of ICEs, but this is very intriguing. If any of the more mechanically inclined of us (and you know who you are lol) would like to comment on this engine, I'd love to get a better perspective on it.

[ziggy951]

You wont be able to run anything but 91+ octane in it, assuming you use gasoline, but it is light weight and small. Diesel is less of a problem unless it doubles the price of gasoline. I havent read any of the efficiency claims but if it is more fuel efficient, as in uses less fuel per stroke, and ALSO more efficient in the energy conversion process, burns all of the fuel that is put into the cylinder, then its a win. The weight savings alone should increase mileage so more room could be dedicated to passenger and storage space, or they could be placed in smaller cars.

If they are super efficient then they could be used for range extenders and would be the missing link to long range, compact, plugin hybrids.
They compare it by giving the displacement of the engine as 850 cubic engines. The Dodge Viper 8 liter engine converts to 488 cubic inches. So this thing is equal to almost two of them.

The more I read about it the more skeptical I become.

They are claiming 850 hp as well.

Lets say for the sake of argument that all of their claims are true. That means you can have a 400hp engine, half the size and sdisplacement of their prototype, smaller than a lawnmower engine, that will fit in virtually any vehicle you can imagine. You could litterally fit this into a scooter.

If they can prove this with some live dyno vids then I will buy one and FIND a way to retrofit it into my coupe.

As a side note. They produced the prototype in 2006.


Z

[MVRacing]

That is the most amazing piece of ice technilogical advance I've ever seen. Just can't believe we haven't heard more about it before now, or that some auto manufacturer hasn't jumped all over this.

You realize we could power an SUV with a volley ball size unit at about 75lbs, and save over 1000 lbs with the down size of the power unit & elimination of the transmission and related parts.

I wonder if they have completed any further testing??

[esoneson]

Any and all engine builders have one thing in common: performance statistics.
MYT folks have none. If they have a prototype, it better function. If it functions, they better have dyno stats. They have nothing. No statistics, no functioning prototype, no dyno runs, no product.....nothing.
Correction: they do have a lot of snake oil......at least 857 cu in of it.:mad:science:

I wish someone would prove me wrong, but that's not likely.

Eric

[RAN]

Excuse me, but if you read the FAQ, they do have one or more working models. They said they ran
"Diesel like bio fuel to run the initial engine test of short runs for about six months for verification purposes.
To preserve working models Angel Labs subsequently adopted air motoring to run Dynamometer instead of fuel ignition so that we can gain test data of engine horsepower and torque without destructing the engine."

This doesn't mean they have a ready to market engine, but they sure seem to be way past the "Rotavi stage."

[esoneson]

I am not trying to be a spoil sport here, I'm just looking at the facts. Yes, I did read the FAQ. And no, I did not see a working prototype. And yes, I did see the videos of the 'air motoring'. And no, I did not see any results of the prototype 'runs'.

A couple of simple tests to verify their authenticity would suffice. One question I would like answered (among many) is a question of heat. Seems to me that dispensation of head from a 150 pound 800+ horsepower motor might be a concern. After all, it takes a certain amount of energy in burning fuel to produce 800+ horsepower and 800 ft-lb of torque. Along with that burning fuel comes heat. Dispensing heat in a high horsepower motor has always been a concern and a source of many problems. Now we have the same amount of heat produced in a much smaller package which needs to be dispensed in a much more efficient manner. How is that done? I guess they can claim that the efficiency of their engine is vastly better and most of the energy is put to the torque and horsepower and less to heat. Yes, that must be it. Efficiency. Somehow they didn't mention the heat efficiency thing in their FAQ. They did mention that the engine acts as a heat sink AND a radiator. Wow, this is getting better and better.

Next question I have is: Why didn't they run the motor with fuel instead of the 'air motoring' while on the dyno? Do you think it had something to do with heat?

I think that all my questions are quite reasonable and I would like to see reasonable answers. I have more questions once these are answered.

Eric

[MVRacing]

And yes, I did see the videos of the 'air motoring'. And no, I did not see any results of the prototype 'runs'.

From what I read they did the 'air motoring' to keep from destroying their prototype. Like you I'd like to know if they've done further 'fueled' tests. I believe their Hp and torque figures are "theroetical". However, I read they did build a dyno, so perhaps they do have some testing to back up their claims.


One question I would like answered (among many) is a question of heat. Seems to me that dispensation of head from a 150 pound 800+ horsepower motor might be a concern. After all, it takes a certain amount of energy in burning fuel to produce 800+ horsepower and 800 ft-lb of torque. Along with that burning fuel comes heat. Dispensing heat in a high horsepower motor has always been a concern and a source of many problems.

In the specs I saw 5 qts of oil with an oil cooler. That is a large amount of oil in such a small motor. My guess would be that the oil cooler is very large in comparison to the motor. Rotary motors do most of their cooling with the oiling system, so this is not uncommon.


Next question I have is: Why didn't they run the motor with fuel instead of the 'air motoring' while on the dyno? Do you think it had something to do with heat?

Like you, I'd love to know how further test are coming since the info seemed to be from 2006.

[MikeB]

I was watching the development of this engine a couple years ago. They had a forum, and several engineers came in to check on things, hoping that it was a true breakthru. Unfortunately, after doing some modeling and analysis, they realized that the MYT claims for horsepower were off by a factor of 4. They engine is essentially running multiple compression cycles at once, and the designers treated it as having more active cylinders than it did (or was running at 4xRPM). They had not actually built a working engine at that time, but had a mock-up that was driven by compressed air.

The forum was shut down fairly quickly after that observation was made, which had to have been 3-4 years ago. I see a recent claim that the engine is working, but I suspect it's just an attempt to secure a contract for further financing.

[ziggy951]

The fact that they have a prototype, since '05ish presumably, and the fact that they have not put it into a dune buggy, motorcycle, one off custom street-rod, drag car or the like leads me to call a bluff on this. The science behind it seems like the engine would actually work and rotate and probably produce motive force in a vehicle but there is no real way to know about what stats it would produce without actually igniting some fuel in that thing and running it on some type of dyno while monitoring a few output parameters.

Air motoring only proves that air can move from the intake through the engine and out the exhaust. Without combustion all they have is an enclosed fan blade basically. I have now watched all of their videos and looked at everything besides the patent, if I have time that will come tomorrow. No where did I see a single engine OR vehicle dyno graph. Without that they have no proof that they even have a working prototype.

I am trying to not be the pessimist but there are literally hundreds of ways they could prove this thing works as intended. They dont even have decent videos of the prototype. They also have zero footage of the engine while it is consuming any type of fuel.

I will offer up my vehicle right now if they would be willing to do their first retrofit to prove this thing works. Hell, I would even pay for the one off parts necessary to get it connected to my drivetrain AND give them the engine back after they prove it works on a dyno or street course. Technically I would probably snap an axleshaft and honestly that would be proof enough for me. I would pay for the dyno time too.




Z

[ziggy951]

I was watching the development of this engine a couple years ago. They had a forum, and several engineers came in to check on things, hoping that it was a true breakthru. Unfortunately, after doing some modeling and analysis, they realized that the MYT claims for horsepower were off by a factor of 4. They engine is essentially running multiple compression cycles at once, and the designers treated it as having more active cylinders than it did (or was running at 4xRPM). They had not actually built a working engine at that time, but had a mock-up that was driven by compressed air.

The forum was shut down fairly quickly after that observation was made, which had to have been 3-4 years ago. I see a recent claim that the engine is working, but I suspect it's just an attempt to secure a contract for further financing.


Off by 4x.....well thats still 210 hp from a 150lb engine. That is more realistic AND if it is much more efficient at burning fuel then it could at least be a competitor to some of the more efficient Honda and Toyotas out there. But if it is only marginally better than it will remain where it is now, an interestingly designed prototype.



Z

[RAN]

Thanks, everyone, for your input. Like you, I have to figure that, if this really worked as advertised, investors would be beating their doors down to get in ASAP.