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Miracleman89
10-29-2007, 09:51 PM
There are several areas we need to be working in! First, we must begin with what we can change immediately. So, the government should begin by investing in hybrid technology. Offer huge tax breaks to those who purchase hybrid vehicles with extra incentives for anything above 50MPG. Also, we should give tax breaks to companies who have more then 50 percent of their vehicles hybrids. This will help push toward our goals! At the same time we need to work diligently towards alternative fuels such as Bio-diesel or ethanol. We need to look toward a clean renewable energy source! The aboved mention are only temporary fixes, these are things we should have been doing 10 years ago, but now we must not delay another minute! It amazes me that technology has advanced so much that our cars can pick up a signal from outer-space, yet we still run them on a goop we pull out of the ground! Step Two: We need to heavily invest in improving and developing solar energy. This technology is only in the infant stages and yet has been around for quite some time. We have truly failed as a society in this arena. We must develop this technology, for us to consider a future for our great great grandchildren. Then we need to bring on-line more wind farms. These clean renewable energies need to be implemented if we plan to rid ourselves of our dependency on foreign oil cartels, not to mention save our planet! These are only a few steps we must take to insure a healthy and stable future!

AZEqualizer
10-30-2007, 09:06 AM
When it comes to fuel derived from carbon chains in plant matter we need to concentrate on using things like wast cellulose or plants that grow in places that don't grow food crops. I think it is ridiculous to be diverting food crops to make fuel. The other factor to consider is not diverting huge amounts of potable water into making fuel. Humans seem to keep robbing Peter to save Paul and looking at the little picture that is often tied up in dollar signs instead of the big picture. Hydrogen fuel cells and solar seem to be some near term technologies for power. Alternative creative power sources need to
developed and not abandoned when oil prices take a dive when it isn't the big target for producing energy.

Miracleman89
10-30-2007, 12:33 PM
When it comes to fuel derived from carbon chains in plant matter we need to concentrate on using things like wast cellulose or plants that grow in places that don't grow food crops. I think it is ridiculous to be diverting food crops to make fuel. The other factor to consider is not diverting huge amounts of potable water into making fuel. Humans seem to keep robbing Peter to save Paul and looking at the little picture that is often tied up in dollar signs instead of the big picture. Hydrogen fuel cells and solar seem to be some near term technologies for power. Alternative creative power sources need to
developed and not abandoned when oil prices take a dive when it isn't the big target for producing energy.

I agree! there is a plant in Africa that does not produce any food source but contains a high level of plant oil that can be converted to bio-diesel or ethanol. This plant grows with very little water and grows in some of the poorest areas of Africa. I think we could help Africa in this area and at the same time begin developing these plants here in areas like Arizona or in large green house facilities! But as I said these are only step we can take now the reality is we need to work toward full on solar energy or wind energy!

Mark Tomlinson
10-30-2007, 09:54 PM
I agree! there is a plant in Africa that does not produce any food source but contains a high level of plant oil that can be converted to bio-diesel or ethanol. This plant grows with very little water and grows in some of the poorest areas of Africa. I think we could help Africa in this area and at the same time begin developing these plants here in areas like Arizona or in large green house facilities! But as I said these are only step we can take now the reality is we need to work toward full on solar energy or wind energy!

The plant is a shrub called jatropha. Problem is that they don't really know how to get a reasonable amount of oil out of the thing. But even though there is no way to actually use the thing yet, everyone is planting it everywhere. It could end up being another well-meaning, but mis-directed effort.

You can read up on it here (http://www.checkbiotech.org/green_News_Biofuels.aspx?infoId=15859).

Miracleman89
10-31-2007, 03:27 AM
Maybe I should have clarified. It is my understanding that the plant does produce a high level of oil but it is the process of converting it to a bio-fuel that is really the problem. Furthermore, there has been little to no research done on producing hybrid crops. this is why I used the word develop, they need to develop an efficient mean of producing the crops as well as increasing transesterification output. I liked the article but I think the scientists who are out on this subject need to do more research. The Bio-fuel created by the plant is more efficient then the bio-fuel produced by several other plants currently being used. All and all I think this is the right direction to take. But finality will be when we reach solar efficiency!

WattGas?
11-18-2007, 09:57 PM
I see Biofuels as an emergency backup for when the power goes out and you can't recharge.

The key to energy security is efficiency.

The newest solar cells are approaching something like 40% efficiency at converting sunlight into electricity. Solar thermal concentration and wind turbines also have reasonably high efficiency at capturing the "free" energy from the Sun and converting it into useful power.

Plants like Corn and Sugar Cane are something like 1% efficient (or so I've heard, sorry, can't find a source at the moment) at converting sunlight into fermentable sugars. Then factor in more loss from the energy required to 'brew' the fuel.

Other plants like Jatropha or Algae may have better yields, but the very idea of using plants for fuel overlooks the fact that the plants evolved for one purpose only: to make more plants.

There are no plants that spent the last several million years evolving to produce sufficient surplus energy to enable billions of humans to each drive a 5,000 lb SUV at 80+ MPH for 100+ miles a day.

That kind of insanely wasteful energy consumption is unsustainable, and is just plain old going away...

The future of transportation is ultimately going to be based on solar, wind, geothermal, and nuclear generated electricity and high-density batteries. This is the only approach that has the efficiency to even partially replace the vast amounts of energy we now get from Oil.

Biofuels are what's getting pushed, because it continues the paradigm of what I like to think of as "The Magic Juice Machine".

Several large and powerful organizations -- Oil Companies and Governments -- depend on controlling the Magic Juice (gasoline) that makes everything go. They will not give up the control (and power and profits thereof) willingly, hence all the horn-tooting about Biofuels. This is to continue the paradigm of keeping people dependent on a supply of Magic Juice that is to some degree under the control of some huge corporation or government. (Check out the things that Monsanto has been patenting lately.)

Anyone can make electricity anywhere in a large variety of ways, if armed with relatively simple equipment and an understanding of Electro-Magnetism, which thank God cannot be patented. It can be scaled up to a municipal level or scaled down to a personal level.

This threatens to cut the fat-cats and their Magic Juice Machine out of the equation, thus it gets heavily downplayed. But it's the approach with the best chance of long-term success...