Is Persu Mobility still in business ? [Archive]

RCD

07-26-2010, 01:25 PM

I have e-mailed the company and the e-mails are returned as undeliverable to there address.
Next I tried calling, but the phone has been disconnected in Ca.
Does anyone know if they are still in business ? Or what is going on ?
no new information on their web site.
Would love to know if there is any real hope in this vehicle making it to market ?

rickb

07-26-2010, 08:23 PM

Welcome to the club RCD! The only member that has had direct contact is Derwin. It has pretty much been dead silence from PM over the past 18 months. I have been following this concept enthusiastically for 3 + years and think they took the money and ran. Others still have a glimmer of hope. The good news is that many of us think this type of vehicle will probably make it to market eventually.

Derwin

07-26-2010, 09:12 PM

I have been following this concept enthusiastically for 3 + years and think they took the money and ran. Others still have a glimmer of hope.

Well, you can count me in with the "others" who still have a "glimmer" of hope left.... but it is only a glimmer!

In regards to the comment "took the money and ran".... I don't really know what to say about that. Well, let's think this over. Let's evaluate this statement, and if it can actually be true. I know this is not the first time it has been stated, and it probably won't be the last. But we need to look into this entire situation a bit deeper before making such a serious accusation. Then, if after evaluating all that has taken place, we still come to this conclusion, then that's fine. I just ask for a bit of intellectual honesty and sincere evaluation before making hard accusations like this.

As I see it, there was no great fortune for anybody to run away with. The company began with money from Ian and Howard, and a loan to pay for the Carver units, along with the use of the tilting technology. Then they received ten million in funding, which allowed them to take this project to the next level, which they did. Since then, they have been unable to secure the funding they need to take this to the next level of production. In the meantime, Ian left the company (probably knowing that this had now become a long term prospect), and Howard stepped down from being the CEO, but still remained with the company. Then they changed their name and brought on a "big shot" corporate guy from Detroit to help them continue and actually produce a production vehicle.... Which, in case you don't know, the people in Detroit have a bit more experience doing than most anyone else on the planet. And that is where we stand at this time. Kind of like in "limbo" not knowing what they are doing at this time, or where they are at in terms of design and/or production.

I would simply ask you this.... If they just "took the money and ran", what money did they take? And where did they run to? A great deal of money was being spent over the past three or four years on office space, research, design, and a host of other things, not to forget about what they owed Carver when they first made the deal. So, as I see it, whatever money they received was spent within the company on the daily operation of the company, and there was nothing to skip town with.

I know it's tempting to make statements like that, but it really is not prudent. In forums we see people make outlandish statements all the time, and we see people spouting off ridiculous accusations at the drop of a hat. But I was always proud of this membership because it seemed the membership of this club was of a higher intellectual mindset, and less likely to making comments unless they were pretty much backed up with fact, or at least circumstantial evidence. I know you are a good man, rickb, and you are just expressing a bit of anger and/or depression over the lack of information from the company. Heck, I've done the same thing in the past. I think I even went so far as to call Persu a bunch of crooks! But when it is all said and done, and our anger subsides, we have to look at the reality of this situation. The reality is that there simply was no money to run to the Bahamas' with. Saying that the good people at Persu are a bunch of crooks serves no purpose, and isn't true. They are good people who had an incredible dream that simply got lost somehow in the corporate world. How did things get off track? Where did Persu miss the mark? Why have they gone silent? I really don't know the answer to any of these questions at this time. But I'm sure we'll all find out the real truth about this sooner or later.

I called Phil Oseas at Persu today to find out if they are still alive, and what the status is of the company. Unfortunately, I was immediately sent to his voice mail, so I left a message. He has always been good about getting back to me in the past, and I'm sure this will be no exception. As soon as I hear word from Persu, I'll post to the forum what I find out.

Keep hope alive. At this point, it's all we've got in regards to Persu.

Derwin

Derwin

07-26-2010, 11:01 PM

It is now 9:42pm Chicago time, and I just got off the phone with Phil Oseas. He called me back almost immediately upon me leaving the message.

Here's what I have to report.... Persu Mobility is still "alive" and well. Howard is working every day on securing the funding that is needed to take this to the next level, and make all of our dreams come true in regards to this vehicle. They are not returning any emails at this time, since they really have nothing to say. They are all just very concentrated and focused on the fund raising aspects of getting this dream into further development and eventual production, and that takes tens of millions of dollars.

Let's take this into consideration.... It took hundreds of millions of dollars to get the Tesla vehicle where it is today. It took that, and yet Tesla was working with an already existing vehicle which they were simply making all electric. Now contrast that with what the good people at Persu are attempting to do. They are not merely taking a Carver and making it electric. No. They are actually creating an entirely new type of vehicle. A new class of vehicle that never existed before. That, from an engineering standpoint, is far more complicated and time consuming. That said, though, they are doing just that, but they need more money to continue. They need approximately 50 or 60 million dollars to get to the point where they need to be with the Persu Hybrid. They have a firm helping them with funds, but they need more, and they are working on securing more funds every day of the week.

Look.... The good people at Persu want this vehicle on the road and in our driveways just as much (if not more!) than we do. They have spent every day of their lives for the past few years working on this dream. We have simply been logging onto this website, and their company website, as witnesses to the process. We have nothing invested except the time we spend surfing the web. Well, I take that back. We DO have something more invested. We have our hopes, desires, and dreams invested in Persu Mobility and their ability to produce the Persu Hybrid. So suspect that is worth something, right? Well, hopefully our emotional investment in the Persu Hybrid will be paid off one day by having one actually in our driveway. It's at that time we will be able to say that we were there "when". We were there at the very beginning.... watching them create one of the greatest vehicle in the world.

OK. I'll stop with that. So, to sum this all up... No. The people at Persu have not fled to the Bahamas' with the company treasury! They are honest people with an honest dream.

Yes. Persu Mobility is still alive and actively pursuing funds to take this to the next level of development and production. Yes, our dream is still alive!

Derwin

rickb

07-26-2010, 11:40 PM

By took the money and ran........................the $10,000,000 was paid in salaries, bonuses, and buyouts with no tangible results beyond a foam mockup. Promises that were never kept that are documented on this website with many members screaming vaporware long before I realized and accepted the idea that they were right. Persu closed all communications regarding progress (there was no real progress to report) and ran away from the concept. There was no need to be secretive because all of the basic styling, technology and engineering was already available and on board the CarverOne. A reasonably intelligent conclusion after 3 years of total support and enthusiasm for the likelihood of even a small number of presold VentureOnes. There was no production vehicle..........and not even a glimpse of a running production prototype. I have moved beyond Persu, although was compelled to respond, and feel we will see a fly the road vehicle in the future and hear about it on your Fly The Road Club Website.

Derwin

07-27-2010, 07:26 AM

By took the money and ran........................the $10,000,000 was paid in salaries, bonuses, and buyouts with no tangible results beyond a foam mockup.

Well, rickb, that just is not true, plain and simple. First, if earning a salary is a sign of some kind of crookedness, then we are all in trouble! lol. As far as bonuses and buyouts.... Do you know something that the rest of us don't know? There is not proof of anything like that. How far do you really think ten million can get you over a 3 year period. I mean, seriously. That's not even a spit in the bucket in the automotive industry!

In regards to "no tangible results beyond a foam mockup", that is simply not true, and the contrary has been documented at this club over the past few years. Besides, how far do you really think ten million gets you in attempting to come out with a vehicle like this? Not very far. Actually, not even passed first base, to be perfectly honest. It basically get's you in the batters box, and that's about it.

Look, I also had your mindset before I did a bit of research on this, and talked to several people that were knowledgeable about this subject matter. Now I know better, and realize that I was wrong.

As I said, there have been HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars pumped into the Tesla project to get it where it is today. To get the Persu Hybrid to the same position will take around 50 to 60 million. It's just the nature of the beast. They are not attempting to make a vehicle like the Carver, where they HAND BUILT every unit. They are trying to make a PRODUCTION vehicle, and that is a whole different animal. I just ask that people do a bit of research on this before calling people crooks.

Take a look at Ben and Revolution Motors. A great concept, right? Well, they are in the same position as Persu, in that they need more money. They are dead in the water now until they find more funding. Are they offering any updates? No. Because there is nothing to update.

Persu closed all communications regarding progress (there was no real progress to report) and ran away from the concept.

Well, yes and no. They have not closed "all" communications. They have kept the lines of communication open through me just to let people know they are still alive and working behind the scenes. And, no, they have NOT run away from the concept. I have no idea where your getting that idea from.

...all of the basic styling, technology and engineering was already available and on board the CarverOne.

Again, simply not true. They were/are not just trying to make a clone of the Carver. The ONLY aspect of the CarverOne that they were sticking with was the tilting technology. Every other aspect of the vehicle is different, from design, technology and definitely every bit of the engineering of the Persu Hybrid.

I have moved beyond Persu, although was compelled to respond

That's fine that you have "moved on", and I know for a fact that many other former "enthusiasts" have also moved on. But to come here and respond by telling this person that you believe the people at Persu "took the money and ran" is just irresponsible. Anybody with any background at all in this, or anybody who cares to spend some time doing some research, would know better.

If you have moved on, so be it. I was there myself several times over the past couple years. But I've decided to stick it out. I've made the decision to stand behind the people at Persu until they either close their doors or finally produce this vehicle. That's my stance. Others have obviously made the opposite decision, which is their prerogative.

Again, the bottom line of this is that the good people at Persu are still working hard every day to take this to the next level, to see our dream vehicle come to pass. As for me, I've chosen to support them in their efforts.

rickb

07-27-2010, 11:19 AM

I did't use the word "crooks" or say that they are "bad" people......you apparently made that assumption. It really doesn't matter one way or the other if the Persu Hybrid makes it to market................I wouldn't buy the vehicle simply based on the attitude and philosophy of the company officials. I have no confidence and or respect for the company.

I'm not sure what you mean by a totally new class of vehicle. The VentureOne/Persu Hybrid is simply a restyled CarverOne with an alternative drive system with options or whatever you think it is......................... a production level or at least a running prototype that investors could wrap their senses around could have been hand built with the initial $10,000,000.00. Elon Musk was able to hand build the first Tesla Roadster prototype and the first Tesla Sedan prototype..............a father/son team was able to build the first Tango Commuter prototype...............the first CarverOne prototype..............the K-Way Motus prototype and so on and probably developed prototypes with their own financing. PM should not be compared to these highly successful companies. Since this is a stated Persu Hybrid Enthusiasts website and I am no longer a Persu Hybrid or at least a PM enthusiast....................I sign off. Thanks to members for sharing all of your views and fly the road concept discoveries. I'm certain we will be driving this class of vehicle in the future probably under the BMW badge.

Derwin

07-27-2010, 11:39 AM

I did't use the word "crooks" or say that they are "bad" people......you apparently made that assumption.

C'mon now, rick. When you say they "ran off with the money", you are strongly implying that they are both "crooks" and "bad people". I mean, that's not a huge stretch, nor is it an assumption by reading it that way.

It really doesn't matter one way or the other if the Persu Hybrid makes it to market................I wouldn't buy the vehicle simply based on the attitude and philosophy of the company officials. I have no confidence and or respect for the company.

As I've stated, that's your prerogative, and others have also made that decision. But I'm trying to understand what you mean by the "attitude and philosophy" of the company officials. How exactly do you define this? I mean, is it because they haven't talked to people over the past year and a half? If that's the case, do you hold Revolution Motors by these same standards?

Ian went full throttle public with the "Venture Vehicles" plan from the beginning, and he is the guy that over promised and said the vehicle would be in our driveways by now. That was all Ian Bruce. Ian has now left the company. The people who remain there are a bit more serious about this, and about just spouting things out to the public without basing it on anything substantial. See where this kind of thing got them in trouble with you? It caused a complete lack of faith in the company with you, and with others like you. Well, that has stopped since Ian left, and you will no longer see the company "go public" with pronouncements and promises any longer. That's a GOOD thing, right? But no, now people are upset because they are so quite and they don't give daily updates. Well, here's a news flash... there is nothing to update! The only real update is that they continue to look for funds to continue this company and eventually get the Persu Hybrid to market. They are using me, and this club, to at least keep us informed that they are still actively working on this every day. You have to keep in mind, rickb, this is not the mighty Ford or GM we're talking about here. This is a tiny upstart company. You can't have the same expectations out of them that you would for the big boys, and that's just the simple truth of the matter.

Since this is a stated Persu Hybrid Enthusiasts website and I am no longer a Persu Hybrid or at least a PM enthusiast....................I sign off. Thanks to members for sharing all of your views and fly the road concept discoveries. I'm certain we will be driving this class of vehicle in the future probably under the BMW badge.

Well, I'm sorry to see you go, rickb. You've added a great deal to this club, and seeing you "sign off" is not good for this club or it's members. But, yes, we are (at our core) a club of "Persu Hybrid Enthusiasts", and we will remain so until the lights go out at the Persu company. At the end of it all, I may be the one and only single active member in this club, and if that be the case, so be it.

RCD

07-27-2010, 07:46 PM

Hi Derwin,

Being new to the club, I am not up to speed on all the past activities of VV and PM. One thought that comes to mind from reading the latest posts is that 10,000,000 should have been able to make a working
prototype. It certainly would not have been the final design, but would have provided a means to test concepts and prove out designs and to attract potential investors.

It is very difficult to raise the kind of money they are looking for today on concepts without a track record and no working hardware of their design to prove viability. Do they have a business plan that is available to potential investors or a prospects ?

I could not find who the current management team is except what I found from Floyd Associates, and they had no date when the piece was written.

So of the other EV start ups put together very talented people for the project team and keep non project over head to a bare minimum. A start up of this size with limited funds needs to operate very effectively
to preserve capital, and produce results.

One concept to fund the company could be to sell shares to prospective buyers and car enthusiasts.If Floyd's sales projections are correct, there are at least 78,400 potential investors out there. @$ 2,000 per that would raise a little over $160,000,000.00. Or being conservative, 1/2 that amount would get 80,000,000. If they have a REAL pan to succeed, I would be willing to be one of the first going forward to write a check.

I have been in the engineering /new products/start up game longer than I care to remember, and it never gets easier. It is still full of challenges and the many unique people along the way that keeps things interesting..
I hope our HOPE and possible creative ideas can help PM make this a reality.

One thing I think they need to change is not communicating to their following. Any information, even updated static news is better then deafening silence.

This is a good quote that sums up the present mode of operating.

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CADMINI%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CADMINI%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CADMINI%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style> "The single biggest problem in communication, is the illusion that it has taken place." - George Bernard Shaw

mariner13

07-28-2010, 10:42 AM

C'mon now, rick. When you say they "ran off with the money", you are strongly implying that they are both "crooks" and "bad people". I mean, that's not a huge stretch, nor is it an assumption by reading it that way.

As I've stated, that's your prerogative, and others have also made that decision. But I'm trying to understand what you mean by the "attitude and philosophy" of the company officials. How exactly do you define this? I mean, is it because they haven't talked to people over the past year and a half? If that's the case, do you hold Revolution Motors by these same standards?

Ian went full throttle public with the "Venture Vehicles" plan from the beginning, and he is the guy that over promised and said the vehicle would be in our driveways by now. That was all Ian Bruce. Ian has now left the company. The people who remain there are a bit more serious about this, and about just spouting things out to the public without basing it on anything substantial. See where this kind of thing got them in trouble with you? It caused a complete lack of faith in the company with you, and with others like you. Well, that has stopped since Ian left, and you will no longer see the company "go public" with pronouncements and promises any longer. That's a GOOD thing, right? But no, now people are upset because they are so quite and they don't give daily updates. Well, here's a news flash... there is nothing to update! The only real update is that they continue to look for funds to continue this company and eventually get the Persu Hybrid to market. They are using me, and this club, to at least keep us informed that they are still actively working on this every day. You have to keep in mind, rickb, this is not the mighty Ford or GM we're talking about here. This is a tiny upstart company. You can't have the same expectations out of them that you would for the big boys, and that's just the simple truth of the matter.

Well, I'm sorry to see you go, rickb. You've added a great deal to this club, and seeing you "sign off" is not good for this club or it's members. But, yes, we are (at our core) a club of "Persu Hybrid Enthusiasts", and we will remain so until the lights go out at the Persu company. At the end of it all, I may be the one and only single active member in this club, and if that be the case, so be it.

I will hang in there with you, Derwin. What are we losing but a small amount of time? I do not give up on a dream so easily. Practice "Delayed Gratification". If it doesn't get done in your lifetime; be glad you had a dream.

Derwin

07-28-2010, 11:15 AM

Hi Derwin,

Being new to the club, I am not up to speed on all the past activities of VV and PM. One thought that comes to mind from reading the latest posts is that 10,000,000 should have been able to make a working
prototype. It certainly would not have been the final design, but would have provided a means to test concepts and prove out designs and to attract potential investors.

Hello, and Welcome to the club, RCD!

Over the past three years, Persu has accomplished quite a bit with the money they had. One thing that took a great deal of time, AND money, was their efforts to pass laws pertaining to this new class of vehicle. Howard and his team have been working behind the scenes on paving the way for making this vehicle more "acceptable" on the roads. I don't want to go into detail about this here, but simply do a search in the club about this, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Now, does this get them any closer to having a finished product? Of course not. But what it DOES show is that they are a serious company that is looking out for the future when their vehicle eventually does go into production.

Now, pertaining to a "working prototype".... I was personally told a while back that Persu has indeed been working on prototypes.... notice that this is plural, not singular. They also have several CarverOne vehicles in their possession that they were using to give people an idea of what they were attempting to create. Some "old timers" here at the club may remember when Ian posted a video of the drive train they were working on, along with other details. That video was incredible, and I posted it to the club for everybody to see. Then I received a call from Ian asking me to remove the video from the club because it was not for public consumption. Ian got into "hot water" for posting it to YouTube, and removed it the same day, then demanded that I remove it also, which I did. But many members got the chance to see this video, which proves they were/are working on at least one prototype. There were also many other videos of the mule that was being created to test various aspects of the vehicle, which members here have been privileged to watch.

My point in saying this is that Persu Mobility has indeed been busy doing many things, including working on various aspects of a prototype. I have been told that they have things that they simply have not made public yet, but have kept for the sole use to show potential investors. You can choose to believe this, or not believe it. But either way, it's no big deal. As I've said many times over the years, we are merely spectators watching this company do it's thing. We have nothing invested but a few moments a day logging into their site or this club site. If we had our hard earned dollars invested into this company, then my opinion would be very different, and I would expect people to be upset. But if we are simply spectators, then why is there all this animosity and anger? I've learned to simply sit back and enjoy the ride. Sometimes the ride isn't so fun, though and there are a few bumps along the way! But, as I've said, for us it's just a spectator sport at this time. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is very difficult to raise the kind of money they are looking for today on concepts without a track record and no working hardware of their design to prove viability. Do they have a business plan that is available to potential investors or a prospects ?

Well, they DO have a few CarverOne vehicles that they used in the beginning to "sell" their idea to investors. Over the past few years, they have designed and developed a bit more to show investors as well. As far as having a track record... That was true up until last year when they brought on a Detroit "big wig" to become the new CEO of Persu Mobility. With his vast experience in getting vehicles developed and on the market, this boosts their credibility quite a bit in this area. And, yes, they do have a business plan available to potential investors.

One concept to fund the company could be to sell shares to prospective buyers and car enthusiasts. If Floyd's sales projections are correct, there are at least 78,400 potential investors out there. @$ 2,000 per that would raise a little over $160,000,000.00. Or being conservative, 1/2 that amount would get 80,000,000. If they have a REAL pan to succeed, I would be willing to be one of the first going forward to write a check.

I absolutely LOVE the idea! Actually, a similar idea was brought up a couple years ago, but it has obviously been either overlooked or rejected. Like you, I would also be willing to be one of the first to write a check to the company. I know that the people at Persu visit our club all the time, and I hope they read this and take this to heart. Hopefully they'll consider this idea.

I hope our HOPE and possible creative ideas can help PM make this a reality.

Well, Persu Mobility has done just that over the years. They interacted with the public almost on a daily basis, and even made us a contributing element to help them with the design and other aspects of the vehicle. They asked for our input on practically everything they were doing, even on the new name of the company, and the name of the vehicle itself! Since they brought on the new CEO, though, things have pretty much gone silent. But in beginning they very active in getting our input.

One thing I think they need to change is not communicating to their following. Any information, even updated static news is better then deafening silence.<m:smallfrac m:val="off"><m:dispdef><m:lmargin m:val="0"><m:rmargin m:val="0"><m:defjc m:val="centerGroup">

Well, I agree. But they have chosen to pretty much go "silent" now, until they can get the funding to take this to the next level. One good thing, though, is that they have chosen to use me and this club as an outlet to keep people "updated" or at least aware that they are still working behind the scenes.

I appreciate your input on this, RCD. And, again, Welcome to the club!
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Derwin

07-28-2010, 11:22 AM

I will hang in there with you, Derwin. What are we losing but a small amount of time? I do not give up on a dream so easily. Practice "Delayed Gratification". If it doesn't get done in your lifetime; be glad you had a dream.

Absolutely! And thank you!

I know I've let things really get me upset over the past few years watching this company, but when it is all said and done, your correct.... we are not losing anything. We're simply along for the ride as we watch this company either succeed or fail. If they succeed, then their dreams, along with ours, will become a reality. And if they fail, then we move on to something else. But I'm at least going to allow them to completely fail before moving on. Now if I did not have this website, then I wouldn't really have that much invested, and "moving on" would mean even less, since all I would be doing is logging onto a website every now and then. But since I'm in the position of operating this club every day, there's a bit more involved. I do have to make the decision at some time in the future to "move on" with this website, and that means changing the entire theme and going into another direction. Well, we have not reached that time yet, and hopefully never will reach that time. As for all of the members of this club... I suggest that you all simply sit back and take a "wait and see" approach to all of this. As I said so many times, we'll know sooner or later whether Persu Mobility will be successful or not.

wireman

08-04-2010, 06:22 PM

YEA BIG D! I, Wireman, will be with you here at FTRC for as long as you care to continue. I am STILL waiting for Persu, or someone to produce a fun-tastic tilt vehicle for mass market, while I am heavily engaged in the design of my own dream trike.

Derwin

08-04-2010, 06:43 PM

YEA BIG D! I, Wireman, will be with you here at FTRC for as long as you care to continue.

Thanks for your support, wireman! I really it appreciate far more than you know, and it's members like you that encourage me and help me keep the torch lit on this website.

Thanks again.

Super

08-05-2010, 12:58 AM

As long as the candle burns with the faintest glow I will stay and watch and hope. This is a balsy attempt to accomplish something amazing. It may go nowhere but if can somehow succeed then I will have had a front row seat in something revolutionary.
Thanks to everyone who has had a hand in fanning the flame and making it possible to dream.

-Super-

Mike kZ

08-05-2010, 08:18 AM

I'll stick around too. If the Persu comes about it should be re-named the Phoenix, (rising from the ashes)

Derwin

08-05-2010, 09:53 AM

I'll stick around too. If the Persu comes about it should be re-named the Phoenix, (rising from the ashes)

Now that's a good one! LOL They will have definitely risen from the ashes if the eventually pull this off, and I really do hope it happens.

Thanks for the support, guys.

wireman

08-05-2010, 08:05 PM

PHOENIX, Hmm........I like it! Thanks Mkz! You've made my day! D, be sure and tell Oseas next time you talk to im'.

Miracleman89

08-09-2010, 10:13 PM

Well I like the name Phoenix more then the name Persu!!! :)

Derwin

08-09-2010, 10:24 PM

Well I like the name Phoenix more then the name Persu!!! :)

Amen to that, brother!

By the way, I hope all has been going well with you, Brian.

Miracleman89

08-09-2010, 10:28 PM

Things are going very well!!!! Got to say I miss the mountains out there in AZ. But it has been a long time since I have been this happy! Thanks for your support! BTW My oldest daughter Got a kick out of the button machine! She thinks it is really cool!!! Thanks again!!!!

Derwin

08-09-2010, 10:35 PM

Well, I'm incredibly happy to see that things are working out for you. I see you've made the move to Illinois. That's great! We've got to go out for a round of golf sometime.

I'm still holding down the fort here, as usual, but it seems the outlook gets bleaker and bleaker as time goes by. Persu still has a pulse, and Howard is still there, but as far as I know nothing is really happening.

I still have a "glimmer" of hope left that they can get the funding to produce this vehicle. I've waited this long, so a year to 2 more won't make much of a difference!

By the way... you can only make good "republican" buttons with that machine. No democratic stuff allowed! lol

Miracleman89

08-09-2010, 11:08 PM

LMBO I thought it was my machine to make what I want!!!! LOL Don't worry if I make some democrat buttons I will send you some, no charge!!! LOL

Antjel

08-26-2010, 06:15 PM

Hi Everyone,

Been watching the Carver for some time (along with the Aptera for that matter). My biggest concern with PM was the fact they had a sellable product in the ICE Carver and didn't sell those to fund the design and testing of the Persu Hybrid, or just a plain Persu Electric. The technology was proven, Carver wasn't the first group to use this technology GM (Lean Machine 1982) and even the BMW (Clever which I would gladly pay $40k for). I'm not exactly clear Derwin how you said PM had to get laws passed to approve the car for the road there are plenty of trikes on the road and the leaning is just another feature just like Piaggio's MP3500. Determining wether or not you need a helmet for an enclosed motorcycle in California should not be that cost intensive.

Again to not have a prototype at all and to not pitch selling the ICE version of the Carver just seems like bad business by my eyes. Persu Mobility appealed to more than the EV enthusiasts. It appealed to commuters and driving enthusiasts a like.

Lastly I appreciate they are talking to you about their investment challenges but to not update the website even with a mention to come to your forum shows a like of confidence on their end PM will ever leave the white board and become a reality.

JMHO

Cheers,
Antjel

Derwin

08-26-2010, 11:27 PM

Been watching the Carver for some time (along with the Aptera for that matter). My biggest concern with PM was the fact they had a sellable product in the ICE Carver and didn't sell those to fund the design and testing of the Persu Hybrid, or just a plain Persu Electric. The technology was proven, Carver wasn't the first group to use this technology GM (Lean Machine 1982) and even the BMW (Clever which I would gladly pay $40k for).

Hello, Antjel, and welcome to the club! wel;co;m;e101))

Persu Mobility did NOT have the ability to simply take the Carver and remake an ICE version of it in America. They signed a contract for the North American rights of the Carver tilting technology (which is patented) to create a hybrid or all electric vehicle ONLY. They were expressly forbidden to take the Carver tilting tech and create an ICE version. If they could have done that, then it would have been fantastic. But they simply did not have that ability.

There have been many tilting vehicles out there, including the ones you mentioned. But none of them used the proprietary tilting technology from Carver. So, yes, Carver was indeed the ONLY company with this technology called DVC.

I'm not exactly clear Derwin how you said PM had to get laws passed to approve the car for the road there are plenty of trikes on the road and the leaning is just another feature just like Piaggio's MP3500.

The legislation that Howard Levine helped to get passed was not exclusive to the Persu Hybrid. Here is some information that may be enlightening to you...

California AB 2272 is a landmark bill that permits fully enclosed, three-wheeled motor vehicles, to access high-occupancy vehicle lanes. This bill came to pass in great part due to the tireless efforts of our Chief Operating Officer & General Counsel (and Venture Vehicles Founder) Howard Levine. Howard personally spent months working behind the scenes in Sacramento to help get this bill passed.

Again to not have a prototype at all and to not pitch selling the ICE version of the Carver just seems like bad business by my eyes.

Well, in fact, they DID have a complete operational ICE version of the Carver. And, actually, they had several of them that they were using for engineering, public relations, and for fund raising. The thing they did NOT have, and could not have, is an ICE version of the Persu Hybrid, since the contract they had with Carver would not allow for one.

Lastly I appreciate they are talking to you about their investment challenges but to not update the website even with a mention to come to your forum shows a like of confidence on their end PM will ever leave the white board and become a reality.

Everybody is loosing heart due to the silence....me included. But, truth be told, they have nothing to "update" us about. All they could possibly post is... "Well, another day passed, and nothing has transpired!" If they did that, then we would still be complaining about how nothing is happening! So they have simply decided to stay silent until they actually have something important to announce.

Unfortunately, many people share your opinion on this. I'm still holding onto a thin thread of hope that Persu WILL get this vehicle into production. But it is only a hope.

johnlaity

09-02-2010, 05:32 PM

The trick to making anything happen is to be pathologically unwavering in your belief that you will succeed.

In business, cash flow is king. Basically it is the equivalent of blood. You cannot function without an adequate flow of money.

When you run out of cash, taking on investors is actually a really tough task.

The more you borrow, the less you will make from your efforts AND the less control you will maintain over your business plan/design/ethics/beliefs/etc.

Investors are vital, but are also loan sharks with smiles. They must believe they will receive an ROI and you must be prepared to pay for them taking a risk on you.

Taking on investment is a vicious cycle. On taking the money you will find that more and more of your time is spent reporting on your progress and making forecasts that make the investors happy. All the while you are not actually designing, making or selling anything. It is maddening!

"Taking the money and doing a runner" sounds fab, but in reality 99.9% of all moneys lost by investors are due to things like:

1. Unrealistic and over optimistic projections
2. Bad management of costs
3. Bad Project Management
4. Unrealistic or over optimistic product designs
5. Poor market research

AND

6. Incompetent leadership

What this usually means is that companies fold and those involved loose more than just the investors money. Houses and cars get repossessed. Company assets are dissolved.

The REAL Pursu question is not about "the Silence", nor about the investors...The big question is about what is happening? AND is what is happening to a sound business plan?

Even a company with no cash needs a business plan!

See, investors don't care about concepts, production or even forecasts...It all boils down to "When will I get my ROI? How much will I then make?"

Most importantly, Investors only ever buy up a debt when there is a guaranteed future payback.

So if you are carrying debt, have run out of cash and are looking for investment to carry you forward...The iceburg of life has already hit.

At such times you need to be ultra-creative and PR the hell out of your prospects.

A pre-order book would be a good start.

A PR stunt vital.

Stick some carbon fibre on a carver and get it in a film. Or race one across the USA.

The golden rule is thus:

It is piss easy to raise money when you are making it.

SO, if you need money, you need to look like you don't need money.

johnlaity

09-02-2010, 05:43 PM

The point to my little share of life experience is this.

Silence may be a good thing.

The longer a company trades and gets on with things is actually a great confidence builder for investors.

The plan could very well be to deliver something to win over investors.

The $ Million question is what would do such a thing?

My guess would be a short run of high priced demonstrators.

Sorry guys, this will mean a couple of petrol driven carver based venture ones at $200K+ price tag.

However, if they do deliver something cheaper and affordable. Then they would fill an interesting market segment, empty of carvers, etc....Even I might put some money up then LOL

wireman

09-04-2010, 02:10 PM

Hi johnlaity! agr:1
You obviously have a business background, and your analysis is dead on! There is, however, a problem with creating Persu demonstrators from Carvers which all of us "old timers" know, but you may not be aware of, to wit: The contract Persu had with Vandenbrink only allows them to market the vehicle as a hybrid or full electric. This precludes their re-skinning a Carver for use as a demonstrator. Also, the ICE engine is not DOT certified in the U.S. I don't think of that as a major problem though, if Persu could get around the contract, because how hard would it be to replace the engine with one that IS certified.

With Vandenbrink going under, it might be possible to re-negotiate the contract with the affiliated engineering group that now holds the DVC Tilt patents to overcome this obstacle, and I suspect they are Persu'ing that and several other options. No telling, but it seems reasonable. I, and all the other FTRC'ers agree that the original 6mil should have been used to produce the prototype/ demonstrators instead of being parceled out toward several simultaneous efforts. The only worthwhile thing to happen was Howard Levine's successful lobbying. It would have been wonderful to see our dream car on the road, even if it was out of reach for us until mass production started.

dr4

09-07-2010, 12:42 AM

Hello all,
I stumbled upon this and just had to share it! It's just too precious and just says it all! http://www.themotorreport.com.au/35854/carver-declares-bankruptcy-tilting-three-wheeler-orphaned
m,saleem butt
hello there ,
after i saw these bad news before carver company declared bankruptcy and closed up shop i am in shocked ,
because i think this machine is the better in all aspect for our future , and one mor thing who,s most interesting in our asia and europe every one like this carver, about performance of carver and design it,s so coolllllllllllllll
i have a suggestion for carver company and administration if you want to build carver in cheep than this rate you came here in Pakistan and start a new company / assembling plant
because in our site you can get man power and material in very low price than in other countries ,in last
i wish may God bless this company ,
best regards n byebye

RCD

09-15-2010, 01:11 PM

Hi Derwin,
Thank you for the lengthy reply.
Sorry I took so long to respond. Life seems to get in the way of finding time to do the things we want.
I hope that since you have a pipeline to PM management you might be able to get them to set up a site or use this site to post a Business Plan and also set up away for customers to leave an escrow deposit for preorders. This has been done by a lot of the competition. how successful they have been is an unknown, except they are making vehicles for sale.
I think they need to find away to communicate with "their following". Maybe they could talk with you on a weekly basic and you could relay what is happening at PV, if anything ? Do you know if they are still reading the posts on the this site ? If not maybe you could relay the concerns and thoughts that are being posted or get them interested enough to post.
Also since funding seems to be their main goal right now, maybe we could be of help to them.
I am sure members,future members, friends and family might be involved with venture capital investments and could be an asset in speeding the funding process along.
If they will communicate with you and you with us we might get the "HOPE" factor moved up to a new level.
PM needs to get out of operating in a "Vacuum mode" and involve their potential customers in what is happening.
Thank you for all your time and effort to keep this going. You are doing an GREAT Job !
RCD

Road Pilot

09-27-2010, 07:01 PM

I'm a new member and periodically check the internet for any news on this vehicle becoming public. Catching up on the posts, I see a lot of people are dismayed by the "silence" of Persu Mobility (PM) regarding the VentureOne vehicle.

"Everybody is loosing heart due to the silence....me included. But, truth be told, they have nothing to "update" us about. All they could possibly post is... 'Well, another day passed, and nothing has transpired!'"

This I imagine is because a heavy hitting professional is involved, and they like the keep everything in-house. I understand that if they were to update posts, it would more often than not say, "No new updates today". See http://deathandcremation.blogspot.com/ for the Blog that we started to give people a bit of an inside glimpse into the creation of an independent film, which from a business aspect, has many similarities as PM, an independent upstart company with a "screenplay" in hand. After a while, the detailed drawn out boring and monotonous work in post production begins and there is really just nothing new or exciting to "update" with.

"One concept to fund the company could be to sell shares to prospective buyers and car enthusiasts.If Floyd's sales projections are correct, there are at least 78,400 potential investors out there. @$ 2,000 per that would raise a little over $160,000,000.00."

I too would be happy to write a check for $2,000 today. A pre-order book would be reasonable. I suspect PM is no longer interested in involving the public for anything. This in my opinion, would be a mistake for their are more of us out their than anyone realizes. For every 1 person that speaks up, there are many others who fall silent but feel the same. I know that if I could get my hands on a Persu hybrid, I could effect so many others that never heard about it to go out and buy one also.

"... and get it in a film."

What consideration as PM given this? I work with car companies as sponsors for exposure at red carpet events. 1252 1253I've scouted for unique vehicles for film and then have that vehicle appear at screenings where it becomes an instant conversation piece. Somebody, call me if you want a willing enthusiast!

I appreciate that PM is focusing on mass production to bring these vehicles to market between $18000 and $23,000. Right now the car I am in love with that is on the road today is the Smart Car. It is so cute. And I can get one new for about $11,000.00, but I really want to hold out for the Persu hybrid, however, the silence from PM is suggesting that it would be pointless to do that. I have conservative needs and look at a vehicle as a tool for transportation only, and have driven the same car since 1998, and the Smart Car is a strong temptation for me, but it's a want, and not a need. Having said that, if the Venture Q100 at $20,000 were to become available, I would consider it a need, a very addictive need.

Like many of the genre fans of "Death and Cremation", and fans of the cast, from around the world, there is much anticipation and impatience for news and information on if this film will be coming out in there area soon and will they be able to see it at all. This is how I feel about the VentureOne and I would love it if PM at least had a showroom where I could stop by in Los Angeles and visit. If nothing else, it would keep the fire burning inside of me.

It is clear that if you keep doing what you've done, you'll keep getting what you've got. With that in mind, I would like to encourage PM to opening up to its fan's and enthusiast's ideas on what can be done to bring us all closer to realizing our dreams of flying on the road right here at home, in the U.S.

Derwin

09-27-2010, 07:42 PM

I'm a new member and periodically check the internet for any news on this vehicle becoming public.

Welcome to the club, Road Pilot! wel;co;m;e101))

I'll be posting much more about this tomorrow, so please check back in.

I'm very happy you decided to join our club. I hope you enjoy yourself while being here, and if you ever have any suggestions, or need any help with anything, please feel free to contact me.

RCD

10-07-2010, 07:33 PM

Hi Derwin.
Looking forward to your next post.
hoping you might have had contact with PM ?

RCD

voyager

11-22-2010, 06:32 AM

Yeah, it's too bad that the U.S. Carver has yet to fly off. I am convinced that NTV's do have a future. I guess that the Nissan Land Glider, particularly because of its projected low price tag, comes closest to what most people on this website want.

The established car industry knows that launching a new vehicle takes way more than most people can comprehend, in terms of capital, sheer persistence, market presence, a network of suppliers and dealers, preferably government endorsement, etc. Even companies like Tesla and Fisker are by no means in the green zone yet. At the time of Tesla's IPO earlier this year it was calculated that Tesla lost 300,000 on every roadster sold (price tag approx. 100,000). They sold around 1000.

It literally takes multi millions to launch a new vehicle. You practically need an established car brand to do the 'co-investing in whatever it takes' with you. Just going on out your own, even with venture capitalists, comes down to wishful thinking. Over the past two years I received a lot of positive feedback, mostly from suppliers who are eager to hop on board... but without a 'main contractor' there's too little to work towards to.

Jake

02-01-2011, 12:13 AM

Wow. Actually don't remember when I started following this. I pre-registered I guess about 2 years ago or so. I check for updates about every 6 months and am always surprised at how the conversation and info is exactly the same. I will still wait and when someone comes out with a carver like vehicle I will buy one. I bought an S2000 in the mean time. A lot of fun to drive and not bad on gas. Reason I only come back about every 6 months is I have a feeling this will take years. I will wear out if I check more often.