Right side door?

[MarkH]

Did anyone notice that in this thread:

http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353

that there was a door line on the mockup on the right side of the car shown in the fourth and eighth photos?

Opinions?

[rogwild]

Interesting, they may have done it just to look more 'normal', but lets hope that perhaps the 'scissor' door (ala' RAVEN) will work on the V~1 (without any 'weight gain') and the 'Gear Selector' knob can be positioned on the dash, or the wiring can be routed through the 'scissor door pivot'.

[tugboatwilly]

You don't think it was just a photo shop mirror image?

[WarpedOne]

Interesting, they may have done it just to look more 'normal', but lets hope that perhaps the 'scissor' door (ala' RAVEN) will work on the V~1 (without any 'weight gain')

I would be more than extatic with a NORMAL door on each side. Maybe Ian came to his senses...


and the 'Gear Selector' knob can be positioned on the dash, or the wiring can be routed through the 'scissor door pivot'.

Here we go again. Gear selector in a fixed gear ratio electric vehicle.
You only need a simple switch.

:rolleyes:

[rogwild]

Here we go again. Gear selector in a fixed gear ratio electric vehicle.
You only need a simple switch.

:rolleyes:

I believe THAT is Just what I suggested. I purposely placed "Gear Selector" in ['.........'s] precisely because it does NOT select speed gears, but rather 'running modes', ie. FORWARD, REVERSE, PARK. Since it has no mechanical linkage, it can be a simple 'switch', button, lever, knob, or even fingerprint ID pad. If they wanted to keep it in the 'traditional' position, near the right hand (on the right door armrest), it would be easy to run the wiring through the door hinge/pivot, or as I suggested place it on the dash/yoke.

[CelticFlyer]

I believe there are door lines on both sides. Wasn't that the plan? I figured it would have two doors from the get-go. For safety, in case the V1 gets knocked on it's side and the driver has to get out or something like that.

Speaking of "gear shift," does anyone here own a Prius? That thumb-sized knob on the dash is kinda freaky. I always thought they should have done what Chrysler did in the fifties (and possibly earlier); they should have just made it a "pushbutton" transmission. My 1963 Dodge 330 had one of those.

[WarpedOne]

CelticFlyer:

I believe there are door lines on both sides. Wasn't that the plan? I figured it would have two doors from the get-go. For safety, in case the V1 gets knocked on it's side and the driver has to get out or something like that.

Unfortunately - no. The plan is/was a single door on the left side.

Anytime debate came to this subject there were fears two doors would be too expensive, delay the production and what no. But price obviously is not a problem when people suggest some crazy after market stuff - wing doors, disappearing doors, sliding doors, curtains, .. :mad:

As for Ian, the reasoning was that there are some space constraints so something would have to go into the right wall - so no right door.

I guess he got enough strange looks when he said "single door" so he changed his mind. If this is true, I'll be very happy.

rogwild:

If they wanted to keep it in the 'traditional' position, near the right hand (on the right door armrest), it would be easy to run the wiring through the door hinge/pivot, or as I suggested place it on the dash/yoke.

Not just easy but trivial i.e. nothing special. You need cables in the door for electric window and lock. Is this really worth the debate at all? It's a nonissue.

[Charles]

I agree, for safety and usability it would make sense to have a door on both sides. Not only that, but it would make the whole thing look right i.e. symmetrical. This is why I also have a slight problem with the front wheel yoke. As it is just on one side it looks odd. I assume that is why they have removed it from the website front page picture. On the 'clever' there is a yoke/front wheel assembly on both sides and it just looks better.

It would be nice if they could do something better with the windshield wiper. The one on the mock-up looks ugly.

Just my 2 cents.

[Hwy1rnr]

Hey, CelticFlyer:
We're currently on our third Prius and, yeah, the mode selector is only one indicator of the "differentness" of these things. Very brief learning curve, I assure you. The coolest thing: silence and cessation of normal operating vibration when one stops at traffic lights, etc. When I ride in non-hybrid cars, I innocently ask the driver, "Why does this keep running when you stop?" ;)

[CelticFlyer]

Oh yeah, I know about that sudden silence that envelopes the driver and passengers at a light. My partner carpools with a girl that owns one, and when she drives us anywhere, that's the first thing I notice. Until recently, I drove a Mustang GT. Imagine what it's like going from hearing the rumble of a V8 engine at a dead stop to hearing absolutely nothing (except for the radio)! Very strange. But not necessarily a bad thing, just different.

I test drove a Prius back in Virginia. I really enjoyed the ride and the pickup was surprisingly spry. The only thing that gave me pause was the sterile feel of sitting behind the wheel. There was very little feedback; it felt at times as though I were piloting a household appliance, as opposed to driving a car. I don't know how else to describe it, other than I felt somewhat detached from the driving experience. Can't beat the sheer economics of that little wonder, though! There are a ton of these in northern California.

[nvrblu]

One of my neighbors built an all-electric car out of a Pontiac Fierro. I have to admit it was unfamiliar riding with him, especially at stop lights -- total silence. I was also surprised by how much torque it had. I believe he used 18 lead-acid marine batteries for power so it was a pretty heavy little car.

[cobraphx]

I still haven't heard a real compelling argument for the right side door... the closest thing is the extrication if it lays on the left side after an accident. But I'm pretty sure fitting out the window wouldn't be an issue. If you can't get out the window, then you'll need professional extrication anyway, pretty sure the plastic body panels wont give the Fire Fighters too much trouble. That is if they just don't right it first anyway, it will be pretty light.

You can easily reach all the way across the vehicle from the one door. You can park ina normal spot and always have room to get in since it's half the width of the average American parking space. If you parallel park at the curb, you will have a bit over two feet more room to open the door than in an Altima, over three feet more if you park in front of an H2, way safer than the car you currently drive. Of course, unless you drive an old pickup truck and slide across the bench seat to get out, you probably never get in or out on the passenger side when driving. Pretty sure passengers will pretty quickly adapt to entering on the drivers side.

Not having the right side door makes the structure of the V1 stronger, lighter, simpler and cheaper to mfg.

[RAN]

Not having the right side door makes the structure of the V1 stronger, lighter, simpler and cheaper to mfg.

Absolutely. And since the weight and price creeps upward with every revision, this becomes all the more important.

[WarpedOne]

Just wait for general public's reaction.
I told you so...

[MVRacing]

Well, not that it means much, but the model for the NY auto show has door outlines on both sides.

[CelticFlyer]

The other obvious advantage is that the driver won't have to worry about falling out of the vehicle when making a hard right turn! :LOL:

...But be sure to lock your (only) door! =y:

The single-door might help the interior seem even cozier. I still think you should be able to lower both side windows. Do the rear windows "vent?" (pop out on a hinge)

[cobraphx]

I think the pop out windows in the rear is a great idea, of course it won't do me any good since I want the Sport Model, and it has (unless the sport design changed) the full wrap around rear glass. Of course like every change to the design, there will be some cost associated with it. Not sure how much it extra it costs... the glass will need holes drilled, hinges and latch mechanism added and a different gasket than a fixed window. I'd guess that it might add $30-80 per V1 once in production. But I don't work in automotive, so I'm just guessing.

I certainly don't envy Ian having to make these kind of decisions. It's a fine line to hit the price points he's shooting for. Where do you draw the line between what can be Std, Optional, and just not going to be part of the design?

[chuckp]

Well, actually, I like the idea of the door being on the right side. =y:

It makes exiting the vehicle far safer when you're parallel parked. Why worry, obsess and brag about how much extra space you have compared to a normal vehicle when you can just get out on the curb side and not worry about it at all?

It's a pretty minor habit to change, for a huge increase in entry/exit safety. This may be a trifle late in the design process, but I've not had much time to visit recently.

[cobraphx]

I don't have any problem with THE door on the right side. I just take issue with adding a SECOND door on the right side. It's a waste, how many times would I use the other door? About as many times as I get up on the other side of my bed I suppose. Which is to say pretty much never. I do have have the option of getting up on the other side of the bed. Just like with the option of having two doors on the V1, but you can't use both at the same time, and you will tend to use one of them all the time anyway, so the second door on the V1 is redundant, really serves no purpose. I'll be happy whichever side of the V1 the (1) door ends up on.

[Mark Tomlinson]

I don't know if it means anything this early in the game, but check out the 3D model of version D from FlyTheRoad.
http://www.flytheroad.com/video/Concept_D_360.mov

There's a door on both sides!

[waboom]

I don't know if it means anything this early in the game, but check out the 3D model of version D from FlyTheRoad.
http://www.flytheroad.com/video/Concept_D_360.mov

There's a door on both sides!

if I remember correctly, Ian had mentioned in a post on FTR forums that they were trying out 2 different door designs on the full scale mockup. Instead of having to pay for 2 mockups, they just had door design #2 placed on the right side. This might be a carryover to the 3d model. I noticed that the side-view mirrors are slightly different, so it could be that the doors are too.

[waboom]

if I remember correctly, Ian had mentioned in a post on FTR forums that they were trying out 2 different door designs on the full scale mockup. Instead of having to pay for 2 mockups, they just had door design #2 placed on the right side. This might be a carryover to the 3d model. I noticed that the side-view mirrors are slightly different, so it could be that the doors are too.

Ok, my bad. The 3D model is rendered on a bit of a slope, so when you look at the left side versus the right side the "horizon" angle is different. Once I exported the left & right side views, opened them in GraphicConverter and rotated the images so they were both level, I could see that the door outlines are in fact identical.

I'm still in the "one door, please!" camp.

[MVRacing]

I'm still in the "one door, please!" camp.

Me too

[MarkH]

+2

[Tim Hodgetts]

waboom,

Thanks for the invite to put in a comment on the right side door question.

Before I go anywhere near that question, I really have to say how moved (excuse the pun!) I've been with the welcome I got here in the Fly the Road community. Suddenly I feel I have loads of friends who not only understand my passion for the Carver, but they want to see the next generation of this fantastic type of vehicle become a reality and a success.

Name dropping is a superficial way to impress people, but when I worked for Carver I was lucky and priviledged enough to meet some really well known people. One of which was Vic Armstrong. Vic was the stunt director that put together loads of Bond films and all of the first Indiana Jones series.

I was sat in his kitchen having dropped a Carver off to him to try out. I'd got hold of Vic with a view to getting the Carver into the next James Bond film, but Pierce Brosnan quit and there was a long gap between films. As we sat there amongst pictures of Stallone, Van Damme, Harrison Ford, Bruce Willis and of course Arnie... Vic said with a lot of enthusiasm that he still felt like an ordinary bloke thrown into an extraordinary world.

When you drive a Carver, its that type of feeling. Suddenly you are a celebrity, but one that everyone likes.

The right side door question never REALLY came up. People would sit in and drive fairly instinctively after 5 minutes or so. This is because such a large proportion of the population is right handed and the gear stick being close to hand for them is logical. Remember, the designers at Carver are pragmatists. If it works, then it gets used. Aesthetics are the next criteria on the list and I mean that without disrespect to them. This is how engineers think. Designers refine what engineers build.

Again, thanks for the welcome and the opportunity to put my views across to like-minded enthusiasts.

[Tim Hodgetts]

Just a quick post script...there was a very interesting vehicle years ago called the Mercedes F300 LifeJet (http://www.didyouknow.cd/whatsnew/mercedes.htm) that got a lot of peoples imaginations going. Sadly it was only ever a concept, but it had 2 doors in a similar configuration to some of the suggestions. That is, the drivers side opens out in the traditional way and the passenger goes the opposite way much like the Mazda RX8. This is called a suicide door for some reason!

[MarkH]

I gotta tell you Tim, I can really see a Carver flying through a cramped European city with the bad guys hot on his tail.

Thanks so much for the insight in to your time at Carver. I truly hope they have an epiphany regarding the price point of the car.

[Miracleman89]

Tim Hodgetts- The reason those doors were dubbed suicide doors was because if you parked on the side of the road and the door was hit as you were getting out it would slam back into the individual! Where current doors if hit will be knocked away from the individual! Just thought I would share. :)

[CelticFlyer]

One of my fave sites says...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_doors

[Tim Hodgetts]

Miracleman & CelticFlyer,

Thanks for the info, that was interesting, especially the Wikipedia feature. You learn something new every day! Then some days, you learn something REALLY interesting.

[waboom]

Thanks Tim for sharing about your Carver experiences! I really enjoy the people on this site too; everyone sharing a common enthusiasm in a really friendly way.

My personal opinion is that a single door design should be adequate. Having doors on both sides is like having a fuel cap on the left AND the right on your typical car - it would be really convenient, but if you're only presented with one on your car you're not going to miss the second one. (Speaking of which, I didn't see any fuel door outlines on the 3D model. And the V1 will probably end up with 2 fuel doors: 1 gas, one electrical!)

[cpaddock]

My feeling is that a single door on the left is totally adequate and in fact the whole
cockpit/pod is going to be that much stronger and intrusion resistant without being cut away on both sides. IMHO
Curves Ahead!