Detailed Specs & Ideas

[Derwin]

Hello! I started this new forum for the sole discussion of the various aspects we will need to consider for this project. Building a Remote Control Tilting Vehicle may be as difficult for us as it will be for Ian to build the actual thing! But I think if we all work together, we can achieve our goal.

We will be dividing this forum up into several different threads relating to each part of this project. That way we will have easy access to all of the information.

Let's begin by deciding exactly how we want to design this thing. What color, what scale, etc., etc. I welcome ALL members to participate in this project so when we finally DO have a finished product, we can all say we had a part in building it.

I think by beginning this project, we will not only have a nice R/C vehicle at the end, but it will keep our minds busy while waiting for VV to release the real thing! So, let's begin......

Derwin

[cpaddock]

Derwin, you GOT IT! We could probably beat V V to the road with this model concept.
RC would be great! But I would be happy with a simple articulated model. No doubt we have the expertise, energy and enthusiasm to make it happen. We will probably need
licencing agreement from Ian, especially if we want him to share CAD files, which would
bring this puppy to light that much quicker.
Here are some scale sizes to consider:
Full size vehicle 140"L x 56"H x 40"W
1/12 scale = 11 5/8"L x 4 5/8"H x 3 5/16"W
1/10 scale = 14"L x 5/8"H x 4"W
1/8 scale = 17 1/2"L x 7"H x 5"W
1/6 scale = 23 5/16"L x 9 5/16"H x 6 5/8"W
1/5 scale = 28"L x 11 3/16"H x 8"W

my personal preference would be 1/5 scale. But 1/8 might be more practical. Too small
and you might have problems with miniaturization of components.
Let's roll up our collective sleeves, people!
Aloooooha!

[Derwin]

I want to keep this project as an INDEPENDENT club endeavor. This way we will not have to deal with all of the red tape that is involved in getting "corporate" approval.

As far as the scale, I agee with you. I think that a 1/5th scale vehicle would be very nice. And at 28" long, it will be something that will catch the eye of anybody that sees it!

We do need somebody with an idea of how to put all of the mechanics together. Maybe Carver has some blueprints or something that we can look at. I don't know. But even if we had the exact blueprints, we would still need to figure out how to create a working r/c model.

Let's keep the ideas rolling in.

Derwin

[cpaddock]

As a scale model I certainly don't see replicating the DVC functionality vis a vis the
sophistocated hydraulics. Some software engineer might be able to create the
programing necessary to combine speed, steering input and degree of tilt. We would be talking about small servos as used in RC planes, etc. Aside from the mechanicals, a CAD
file of the body shell would enable rapid development of the molds for the injection process. If we don't make an exact scale duplicate of the V1 we might bypass some
red tape, but if Ian and Co. liked the idea they could probably grease the wheels for us.
I would prefer an exact duplicate, skin deep at least. This is done all the time but is out of my field.

[CelticFlyer]

Yeah, what cpaddock said. =y:

I'm more artistically inclined. I wouldn't be able to tell you how to wire/program/engineer anything. But ask me to render it in Photoshop, and I'm your man. Unless, of course, someone else wants to give it a go.

I might even venture (there's that word again!) to produce a scale replica. I've had some plastic modeling experience. I'm a little rusty, but I'd enjoy a refresher. What'd those guys use for the full-size mockup? Styrofoam? Looked good in the photos, even if it had a ten-foot paint job (looked GREAT from ten feet away).

[cpaddock]

Once we get our hands on the Gen 3 design, with enough views and basic measurments, I could certainly carve the body form in wood, working to section templates. This could then be laser-scaned which renders it to a CAD format for duplication. Sort of a reverse-engineering approach. There probably won't be an interior to detail as it will be all mechanicals and batteries. Operable door and hatchback/sunroof for access would be
cool. But a lift-off one-piece body shell would be more practical. Drive motor would still
need to be in the "pod" section, with unrestricted tilting clearance provided for the electricals. I like the idea of molding the body of clear thermal plastic. This is cheaper
by far than injection molding, and gives you an automatic clear-coat for interior-applied
paint jobs, frosting via sand blasting, translucent colors, tinted windows, etc.
Man, get me started why don't you?!! :)
OK, here's a photo of my 1/5 scale model mini sub which happens to be exactly 28" long.

[Mark Tomlinson]

I want to keep this project as an INDEPENDENT club endeavor. This way we will not have to deal with all of the red tape that is involved in getting "corporate" approvalIf we are going to make a scale model for sale (even just to club members), then we absolutely need Ian's approval and probably a license agreement. That said, I still think this is worth the effort.

If the idea takes off, we should start a forum just for the model. Sub-forums underneath could focus on specific "projects". One could be for the radio control electronics. Another might be just for the tilting mechanism. Another might deal with the body, and so on. But I wouldn't do this until the project gets rolling.

I'm all for an 1/8 scale model.

Edit: Doh! I see this is already a sub-forum. Amend the above to read, "If the idea takes off, we should bump this sub-forum up to a forum".

[MVRacing]

Hi All,
Ok, was thinking about this all day while working on a friends race car.

I think I've got all the mechanicals figured out with the exception of the front wheel steering/shock/attachment.
I need help here. I can kind of figure out how to do it like a motorcycle front end, but would much prefer to do it like the actual V1/Carver. Anyone know where we can come up with drawings/diagrams, or detailed photos of the front end?

For the tilt, I was thinking of just a direct link to the steering. So, unlike a real V1 it will tilt with the front wheel steering no matter what the speed. That work for you all?

As far as scale, I think I would go 1/8th or even 1/10th max. Any larger and you wouldn't be able to turn it around in your driveway. It's going to have a turning radius of about 10 to 12 times the width. Also, at the smaller scales (1/8th) there are many RC car parts available - wheels, tires, shocks, suspension parts, drive half shafts, electric motors & gears etc.

Clear plastic is the only way to go for the body IMHO. Light weight, flexible, easy to paint/detail, and cheap. You can buy more than one body and have different colors. Or 2- one for running and one for sitting on the desk (show). I've used these on Slotcars and RC cars in the past.

[MVRacing]

One other area I need assistance ... other than height/width/length, do we have any other actual measurements that we can scale down? Even if it's for a Carver?
Wonder how far Tim's guy in London got on the project? And if he would share?

[Baja_Traveler]

You know cpaddock - if you can carve out a wooden model, it would be very simple to convert it into a vacuum form mold. (actually plural - body mold and drive pod mold) That way the body will be light and easy/cheap to manufacture, just like the RC car bodies that are available already.

I may start taking apart my old RC-10 and looking to convert it into a working model. It would be smaller scale than everyone is talking about, but servos and motors are cheaper as they would be moving ounces instead of pounds.

[WarpedOne]

>> If we are going to make a scale model for sale (even just to club members), then we absolutely need Ian's approval and probably a license agreement.

Not at all. If we use pubslished pictures to reverse-engineer it and do not mention VentiureVehicles it is perfectly legal even without his aproval. We need aproval for using "VentureVehicles". I am not sure about VentureOne as it is only a codename, not a registered trademark yet.

[Miracleman89]

Well, I will say I still think we should at least get a nod from Ian. Even if we aren't asking for a licensing agreement. Having his approval would be great and I wouldn't feel like we are stealing his thunder! if you know what I mean!

[Derwin]

Venture Vehicles is not the ONLY company that is designing/building a tilting vehicle. Carver, of course, already has one on the market, and there are other companies that have proposed this idea also. I don't think we need to go to Carver, Venture Vehicles, or any other company to obtain approval simply because we are building a tilting r/c car. I have an idea of the incredible amount of red tape that would be involved in getting approval from ANY of these companies, and, again, I think we should avoid this at all cost.

That being said, I think it WOULD be "nice" to get Ian's approval, or even the "nod" of the people over at Carver. But I don't think, by any means, we would be stealing Ian's or Howards thunder by building a remote control vehicle. Heck, they may even "unofficially" like the idea!

Tell you what, if one of you wants to contact Ian about this project, it's fine with me. But I know Ian may NOT have the power to just go ahead and give us the green light. He has investors involved in VV, and he may need to pass this through them or at least a board of directors. Those people will always ask "what's in it for us" before they give ANY approval. I would think the same would apply to getting approval from Carver as well. We don't want that. All we want to do is create a nice little r/c vehicle for the club. We don't want any third parties getting involved, or THIS project may take 3 years to get completed!

As to HOW we proceed with this project......Do you think a vacuum forming machine will be a good thing for actually creating individual units? I know we must come up with a design first, and get all of the details worked out, but I was thinking of purchasing a vacuum forming machine if this will do the job. Also, if you know of any other equipement we would need, please post it hear. I have many contacts in China who can supply me with most anything.

Let's keep rolling..... =D

Derwin

[rogwild]

Perhaps reading " "NO SEARCH ENGINE"- Some tips & Please Help " from the FTR site would have helped.

From almost a year ago there was this thread:

http://flytheroad.com/blog/forums/topic.php?id=248&replies=6#post-2886

Nice video of the RC model and it can be translated from the French (read thread).

I know that we are an 'independent' organization from Vv, BUT if we design, build and SELL a model vehicle that 'looks like' the Venture Vehicle V~1, (we DO want it to resemble our future V~1's, don't we?); it would be the 'right thing to do' (even if it is not illegal), to get Vv's approval and 'blessings'. Also we would have to get an agreement with the French patent holder (or make sure that his patents did not apply).

[Mike kZ]

For the tilt, I was thinking of just a direct link to the steering. So, unlike a real V1 it will tilt with the front wheel steering no matter what the speed. That work for you all?


This is exactly what I was thinking too. Just a couple of servos in the back connected to the steering servos. Turn left, and the left rear servo would pull the body to the left. Simple!

[Derwin]

rogwild,

I was already aware of that thread at the official site. It only had 6 posts to it, along with the link.....not really much information. But it DOES give us a little jump start on how we can design OUR vehicle. Thanks, rogwild, for the reminder of that thread. Here is the video of the tilting r/c vehicle:

k0NrC5hLZJM

Getting "official" approval for this project would be a massive undertaking. I don't know if you read what I already stated, but it would probably take something just short of an "act of congress" to get the approval of either Venture Vehicles or Carver. The independent route is still best in my opinion. But I welcome any club member to contact Ian or Carver if they wish to get approval. You can act as a representative of this club for this particular reason. For now, let's not argue about whether we should get a company endorsement or not. Let's just begin this project, and get this thing started. We can always address those issues later if we decide to do so.

MVRacing, If you know how to do all of this, please post it here, or give us a link. In the meantime, I will contact the person/company that designed the r/c in the video. Maybe we can get some detailed information about that, and get permission to use it in our model.....At least it's worth a try! If not, then we need to start by designing this thing, and then getting all of the "mechanics" worked out. I think we can "get 'er done" in a relatively short time if we organize this project in a good way.

Derwin

[cpaddock]

Baja T, I agree vacuum forming is the way to go. I can make a mold of the wood
body shapes, and pour an aluminized epoxy casting for a more durable male plug
for the vacuum. I think we are talking about "Lexan" Polycarbonate sheet which is
virtually indestructable.
MV, 1/8 scale would be great, especially if there are off-the-shelf components we can
use. Personally, I would like this project to be kept "in house", that is, sans China.
Nothing would make me prouder than a "Made In U.S.A." label! Of course I'm sure a lot
of the components will come from China so that is unavoidable. And of course this will be an all volunteer effort to get her off the ground.....
Even if we don't have CAD files I'm sure that with enough photos and sleuthing we can create a very close approximation of an actual V1 body shell. Piece of cake!
Derwin, I appreciate your openess to Vatever direction this may go, as it is a very fluid process at this point. The video of that little model turning donuts has really got me EXCITED!
Aloooooha!

[rogwild]

Derwin; no 'argument', just some comments, concerns, and suggestions.

First, I think we need to determine what the GOALS of this 'Project' are. Is it:

1) To produce plans that club members can use to make their own 'generic' tilting RC vehicle from locally purchased parts?

2) To produce a generic 'kit for sale' that members can purchase, build and then make to look like whatever 3-wheeled tilter they like?

3) To make a complete RC vehicle that resembles the Venture Vehicles V~1, or Carver One, or some other 'recognized' 3-wheeled tilting vehicle.

If it is #1, I see little problem with the project, since there is no 'sale' involved. If it is #2, we better make sure that there is no infringement on the French RC 'tilter's' patents. If it is #3, I would believe that the company involved, would be concerned that, "A Private initiative of Derwin Beushausen", would be 'selling' a RC model that closely resembled their design, without prior approval.

I would be nice to know the 'final goals' of the project, before investing much 'time and effort'. I'm sure it will be very time/talent consuming, and I would like to have a RC 'tilter' (even if I have to build/assemble it myself), but would hate to see all the effort wasted if the 'goal' is not realistic/obtainable.

I would say go for #1 (a generic DIY 'tilter' plans), but to the proposed dimensions of the V~1. We could then make bodies to look like whatever vehicle/ model we wanted. If we came up with completed items for sale, we would have to worry about patent and trademark problems. JMO.

[Derwin]

Rogwild,

Thanks for the input. I think you make very good points about MAKING THE GOAL of this project VERY CLEAR. I would think that options 1 and 3 that you have presented would be good goals to achieve. Creating PLANS that people can use to build their own vehicles would be a FANTASTIC way to go. But I also think that offering a COMPLETED vehicle to members is also an option that would be great. As a matter of fact, I think it is the best way to proceed. To do so, though, will require PLANS! The very first step is to come up with actual PLANS that we can use to build a working r/c vehicle. Once we have those, then it's just a matter of getting a company to build the vehicle using the plans, or I could get the machines so we could build them ourselves. I know that many people will not be inclined to "self-build", and that's why I want this to be our major goal.

Now, I know that everybody wants "American made" products, but the simple fact is that most everything we buy and/or use comes from another country......most likely China. Things just cost less when they are made in China, as opposed to the states. One thing that I can do is buy the equipement that we will need to make the various parts, like the body, etc. I think this would take a vacuum forming machine, and most likely some other machines. This way we can truly say that it is "American Made", but we will still need to get wheels, servo's, etc. that will most likely be made in China.

I have already contacted the man who created the vehicle in the video. If I can buy the rights to use HIS design, this will save us a whole lot of time.

Keep the ideas rolling in.

Derwin

[MHARVEYM]

DERWIN,

I am just a little confussed. Are you interested in marketing the little devil or is this for club members to purchase only?

[Derwin]

DERWIN,

I am just a little confussed. Are you interested in marketing the little devil or is this for club members to purchase only?


=D
Well, I don't know. I guess once I purchase all of the equipment needed to build these things, and if I am able to purchase the rights of the one shown in the video, and then get the thing built.............it can be offered to the club in "limited edition" models, and then to the public at large. But we are a LOOOOONG way away from that. We need to take this one step at a time, and the first step is to figure out how to make one to begin with.

Derwin

[MVRacing]

MikekZ,

I was thinking of just 2 servos - one for throttle/brake, and the second for tilt control. Now that I've seen that video, that is exactly what they did.

The front wheel is just free to pivot ... it is the body tilt combined with front fork castor that causes it to turn as the wheel is driven forward. What is interesting in the video is that it also automatically counter steers in a spin (as it should). Also interesting is the chain tilt limiter ... I was planning on an adjustable arm off the tilt servo bell crank to set/limit tilt angle.

I was thinking of using an existing RC car and cutting off the rear 1/3, with suspension, shocks, diff, motor to form the "pod". The "body" floor then carries the battery, receiver, motor controller/servo, and tilt servo. For the tilt pivot, I had in mind a hollow tube which can carry the wiring back to the motor.

What I'm struggling with is the front suspension. I don't like the motorcycle front forks on the French model. I'd much prefer to make it more like the Carver/V1. Problem is, I don't know how it is designed/works. I found one fuzzy photo of the front end in the Carver "factory tour". I'd love to have design drawings, or a parts manual/CD so I could figure it out. May Just have to take a trip to CA, see if Ian will let me look at the "Alpha', or at least a Carver. ;)=D

Anyone else have any ideas?

[rogwild]

MVR; you might want to look at the Tyco Terrainiac:

http://tinyurl.com/4j4afc

It is a 2F1R with rear drive and tilt, but perhaps the 'tilt' control might work. KMart had some at 1/2 price so I picked up one (for my grand-nephew, yeah right), but have not had time to take it apart. Running in 'reverse' (single drive wheel 'forward') it sort of works like a V~1/Carver. Might be a basis to start from.

[Mark Tomlinson]

First, I think we need to determine what the GOALS of this 'Project' are. Is it:

1) To produce plans that club members can use to make their own 'generic' tilting RC vehicle from locally purchased parts?

2) To produce a generic 'kit for sale' that members can purchase, build and then make to look like whatever 3-wheeled tilter they like?

3) To make a complete RC vehicle that resembles the Venture Vehicles V~1, or Carver One, or some other 'recognized' 3-wheeled tilting vehicle.
We have an expression at work, 'Ambiguity kills a project'. To that end, every project - every single project - starts with some sort of "scope" document. It doesn't have to be much, just a memo for small projects. But it has to include certain elements.
What are we trying to accomplish? Plans? Kits? Finished models? An RC V1, or our own design "inspired by" the V1?
What aren't we trying to accomplish? We certainly don't want to form our own model building company, but it could head that way if we don't nail down the parameters. What else are we not setting out to do?
What is the definition of success? How do we know when we're done? Seems silly to ask, but this is where we list the requirements such as a tilting mechanism that approximates the carver mechanism. Bullet points work well.
What would we like, but not absolutely need? Sure, we want it all. But if you don't distinguish between wants and needs, you spend too much time on the wants and the needs never get finished.Sounds like a lot, but it's not. And it saves a LOT of grief later on. A simple way to do this is to "wikitize" the scope. Start a thread and post the draft scope document as an announcement to the thread. We all comment on it and periodically a moderator can update it. That way we can all stay on track.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Some thoughts on scale.

Earlier I said I like the idea of 1/8 scale. But that was based only on what I thought would be cool. Since then people have commented about the turning ratio versus driveway size and the availability of ready made parts.

It occurs to me that the scale should be determined by the size of available servo motors. Especially if we are going to make this a do-it-yourself project. We don't want a bunch of hard to obtain expensive parts.

So maybe the RC enthusiasts among us should determine the scale based on the mechanics and electronics of the vehicle. And remember, we don't actually have to put anyone in the passenger seat.

[Derwin]

Mark,

I agree with you 100%, and would like you, or another member, to put together a "draft scope document" for this project. As far as the main goal of this project, it will be to create plans, and then to actually BUILD an actual 3-wheeled tilting vehicle modeled after the Venture Vehicle design. I will purchase all of the necessary equipment, such as vacuum forming machines, etc., in order to form the body of this vehicle, as well as create the other elements. I will have my group of people here in Chicago put this all together and then offer the units up for sale on the club site. There will be 2 separate units developed......1. A numbered "limited edition" model created for club members only; and 2. A model created for distribution to the general public.

I do not intend on forming our own model building company, but I AM prepared to get the needed machinery for this project. I also agree with Mark in that we want to create something that will be at a "friendly" scale so parts are readily accessible.

An email was sent to Ian and Howard, as well as Rick Balsiger of Venture Vehicles informing them of this project, as well as asking for their "official" approval to model this after the VV design. As soon as I get a response, I'll post it to the club. I would much rather design this after the V1 than to go forward with a generic model. Hopefully we will get the official nod of the company.

Well, let's keep this thing rolling.....

Derwin

[rogwild]

I think that ULTIMATELY we all would want an RC vehicle that looked and performed as close to the V~1 as possible.
Therefore, I believe that contacting Vv personnel with the idea was a good move. I guess we'll see if it takes an 'act of congress' to get approval. They may recognize it as a good 'marketing' move, but may require approval of the final design (could be a time delay). Their basic frame/chassis drawings and dimensions would be all that is required to get started. An 'interim' generic KIT could be the first step, with a 'snap-on' V~1 body to come later. It could be purchased later for the early 'kits', and be supplied with the fully assembled models.
It would be a great way to get the FAMILY 'hooked' on the V~1 concept. Buy an RC model for Christmas/Birthday for the 'kids', and soon they will be saying; "Mommy, can we get a real one?"

[Derwin]

Roger,

I really have come to the conclusion that building an actual r/c vehicle would be pointless if it did not replicate the actual V1 design. I have sent emails to Ian, Howard, and Rick Balsiger about this matter. If I do not hear back from them, I will take the lack of response as my answer! If this is what happens, then I think this project will then become one of club members coming up with PLANS on how we can build a vehicle on our own, and then customize it on our own. This way we won't be getting involved in any violations regarding copyrighted or trademarked images or designs.

What do you all think? :IDEA:

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Has anyone laid a photo of the auto show mockup over a grid to get some measurements?

[cpaddock]

Derwin, I think the email to Ian and Co. was the right thing to do. I'd give them some time to process the idea. But I see no reason not to go forward with the initial planning phase. Even without their sanction, we can create a tilting trike RC model. The only question would be how different from the original would it have to be to keep the lawyers away. This is a pretty grey area, it seems to me. I mean, if we are not working from actual blueprints of the V1, and if we don't get to go do a measure-up of the full
size mock up, and if we are restricted to working from photos then there is inherently
going to be some varience of proportion and detail. Too bad, though, because I still feel
an exact scale replica has the most appeal across the board. The fact that it would be a miniature V1 is the main attraction. That it actually races around is a big bonus, but not something I see myself spending a lot of time playing with. Again, an articulated model
sitting on a display shelf would be just fine. In fact, without the expense and complication of the RC factor, we could think about injection molding which will yield a much higher degree of realistic detail. We could have doors that open, a fully detailed interior, etc. Anyway this goes back to Mark's post, and the question "What are we trying to accomplish?" The limiting parameters are still in process of discovery. Just my 2 cents.....
Alooooha!

[MVRacing]

A 1/12th scale Diecast quality display model would be nice for the desk.

[PHEVadvocate]

I would like a Diecast V1 model that tilts! =y:

It would go nicely with my Diecast Chevy Volt!

The Volt Diecast was made in China by the May Cheong Group. The box also says: BBurago Internaional Inc Fontana, CA 92336, USA .

[Miracleman89]

It would probably have to have some kind of spring system in order to return to it's upright position!

[MVRacing]

I think I would like to set it at an angle and have it hold ... so a snug (friction) or a click (racheting) system.

[rogwild]

It would probably have to have some kind of spring system in order to return to it's upright position!

Or for a DESKTOP MODEL (non-RC), just enough friction to have it maintain whatever angle it is set at for display. I definately want to show off the 'tilting' ability (ie. FUN FACTOR)!:rolleyes: (Ooops, looks like MVR beat me to it!):IDEA:

[Derwin]

R/C Update.....

Well, I have been in negotiations with the designer of the remote control tilting vehicle. From what he is saying, I think he will be open to letting us use his design, but it's going to cost me........what else is new!!

I still have NOT received a response from either Ian or Rick Balsiger, so I don't know where we stand on that issue. I have been researching this out a little bit, and I am hearing from a couple people that we MAY be able to go ahead with this project even without "official" approval from Venture Vehicles. I'm not 100% sure about that, and I won't risk it until I am 100% positive.

I'll keep you posted about the actual designs. I think we are close to making an agreement.

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Besides, it has a motorcycle front end ... not what I want.

[MVRacing]

Hey Derwin,

I wouldn't pay anything for that design. The 3 wheeler RC I've got in the process of build, I came up with the idea prior to seeing the French RC and looks nothing like it.


R/C Update.....

Well, I have been in negotiations with the designer of the remote control tilting vehicle. From what he is saying, I think he will be open to letting us use his design, but it's going to cost me........what else is new!!

Derwin

[MHARVEYM]

Been following the project. Being an insurance minded person.....any consideration for products liability. That in itself can be a bit overwelming unless picked up by the manufacturer. Ignore if taken care of! Harv

[cpaddock]

MVR, you sound like a real self-starter.....reminds me of me...:) keep at it, dude!
can't wait to see what you are coming up with. I really like the idea of keeping this project "in house" as much as possible. Something we can really be proud of! I'm still interested in carving the body parts so feel free to pass on your frame/chassis specs
as soon as you have something concrete. What scale are we looking at?
Aloooooha!

[Derwin]

Hey Derwin,

I wouldn't pay anything for that design. The 3 wheeler RC I've got in the process of build, I came up with the idea prior to seeing the French RC and looks nothing like it.

I am getting the design of the MECHANICS from this person. We will then take that R/C vehicle and put a "SKIN" on it to resemble the exact look of the V1. The design this guy has will work PERFECTLY for what we want. All we need to do is cover all of the mechanical stuff and make it look like the V1.

Anyway, if you have something better, please send me the information by email. I would like to take a look at what you came up with. My email is: derwin@flytheroadclub.com

Thanks.

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Hi Derwin,
Didn't mean to tread on any toes :o Just trying to save you some cash. I don't see any way you will be able to get the V1 body over the top of the motorcycle forks. Even if that were possible the forks won't look right IMHO.

Will email/post what I have as it comes together.

[Derwin]

MVR, Don't worry about it, you DID NOT step on anybody's toes! The guy is willing to sell me the plans, and allow me to create a vehicle for resale. I think the way it leans is pretty impressive. Don't you think it would be rather easy to put a V1 body over that design? Maybe we could alter something with the design so the forks are not showing??

In any event, if YOU have a better design, please share it with me. I would much rather use YOUR design than this guy in France. This vehicle MUST be made to look exactly like the V1, and if you have the mechanics worked out, then this is great. I am very serious about this project, so please let me know what you want to do. Thanks.

Derwin

[Derwin]

UPDATE......UPDATE.......UPDATE........UPDATE..... ....UPDATE

=y: We now have the OFFICIAL endorsement of Ian and Venture Vehicles!! =y:

Here is the Letter that I sent to Ian and Venture Vehicles:


To Ian Bruce,

Hello! Hope things are going well for you and the VV project.

As you know, we began a little Venture Vehicle enthusiasts club. You can view it at www.FlyTheRoadClub.com We are up to around 300 members so far, and this with absolutely nothing but word of mouth. We hope to be at around 5,000 members by the end of the year with a new marketing campaign to be launched soon.

The reason for this email is to inform you of a NEW CLUB PROJECT that we are working on. We are designing and developing a new Remote Control Tilting Vehicle, and we would like to model it after the design of the V1. We will be investing a great deal of money and time into this project, and we want to be sure to get Ian and Howards nod of approval for this project. We think this will generate a great deal of publicity and interest in Venture Vehicles, as well as a hands-on view of what the V1 will actually be like. Although we certainly can go forward with a generic tilting vehicle, we would really prefer to model it after the latest V1 design with Venture Vehicles blessing.

Please get back to me as soon as possible regarding this matter. I look forward to hearing from you.

Derwin Beushausen
897 Meadowbrook Rd.
Elwood, Illinois 60421
815-315-0321
dbeushausen@gmail.com
www.FlyTheRoadClub.com

I then received this response from Ian:


Hi Derwin,

We’d be happy to help — we can even provide surface meshes in IGES format if you like.

The tilt mechanism could be similar. We’re still refining our exterior design, but but we think we’re just a bit more attractive:

http://www.flytheroad.com/video/Concept_D_360.mov

Cheers,
-- Ian
http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=324&stc=1&d=1208640474



Needless to say, I AM THRILLED! This positive response by Ian has lit a fire under me and renewed my incredible enthusiasm for not only THIS project, but for Venture Vehicles. I hope this has done the same for you as well.

Personally, I am overwhelmed with delight at the positive response. It has actually gone beyond what I even hoped or dreamed.

Now that we have the GREEN LIGHT from Ian, let's start to focus on how to start this project, and then see it to its completion. I want the end result to be something that Ian, VV, and everybody will be proud of. I imagine that we will pass ANY design by Ian to make sure it will meet or even exceed what he would like this to be.

Well, now we can let the fun begin....and the hard work! =y:

Derwin

Hey, be sure to watch the 3-D movie of this incredible vehicle. It is simply awesome to see!

I guess getting Ian's approval didn't take "an act of congress" after all! ;)

[MVRacing]

Wow Derwin, that is just great!!! =y: =y:
Love the 3d movie ...anyone know how to slow it down?? Or turn it into a screen saver?? :IDEA:
We have any experts out there who know what "surface meshes in IGES format" are? :IDEA:

[Derwin]

MV,

That is a quicktime movie. Just go to the bottom of the movie, and you will see the round indicator. Put your pointer over that indicator and press on your left mouse button. Keep the left mouse button pressed, and you can drag the indicator back and forth to view the movie at your own speed. You can actually see all sides of the vehicle at your own pace and go back and forth. It's really easy.

Ian said that he would give me all the help we need to make this as true to the real thing as possible. IGES format is a way to take any design, and bring it into a 3-D realm. It will help us in making the r/c vehicle an exact duplicate of the actual vehicle. I am really excited about this!

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Ok, I've blown up the photos of the Auto show styrofoam mockup and taken the following full size measurements, then converted them to 1/7th scale. Would appreciate any verifications. ...Derwin, any chance of getting accurate measurements from VV?

I chose 1/7th based on the wheel base of the "pod" and the RC car I've chosen to use for this project. I've selected the Losi 1/18 Mini Late Model
http://www.losi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOSB0221

Two main reasons - the motor is parallel to, and behind the rear axles. Also the shocks are shorter than off road RCs (less suspension travel). This allows ease of design for the tilt pivot point, and proper dimensions for the "pod".
Second, all the parts can be ordered seperately (as you can see in the link).

I will also document all my parts sources and the build steps in case someone wants to do the same build.

I still need help understanding the V1 front suspension.

RC Car is on order.

Dimensions - all measurements in inches
Item, Full size, (1/7th scale)

Overall length 140 (20)
Overall Body ht 58 (8.3)
Body length 127 (18.14)
Body lenght @ base 76 (10.86)
Body ht 52 (7.43)
Body width @ front wheel CL ~21 (3)
Body width @ wings ~34 (4.86)
Body @ shoulder ~30 (4.3)
Pod length 40 (5.7)
Pod ht 40 (5.7)
Track 40 (5.7)
Wheelbase 112 (16)
Front wheel 17 (2.43)
Rear wheel 15 (2.14)

I appologize for the format, had it in a nice table, but it wouldn't paste. =n:

[Derwin]

MVR,

I clicked on the link you provided, and it said there is nothing there.

Anyway, I promised Ian that this vehicle will NOT be something that is just thrown together with spare parts and altered r/c vehicles. We really do want this to be built from the ground up as a UNIQUE r/c tilting vehicle that looks and acts EXACTLY like the actual thing. A real quality product.

Ian will be sending me all of the detailed documents and files so we can duplicate and downscale them in this project. We will be using these files in a professional way using factory equipement to build every part of the r/c vehicle.

Keep me updated on what you are doing. I want to see how it comes out.

I am in contact now with a couple companies that may be able to help with this.

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Sorry, guys. I couldn't wait for you to get this project under way, so I created my own RC VentureOne from scratch. Still needs a paint job, but hey, at least I got something to work with!

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/ChrisholdingV1.jpg

Luckily, the remote control from my '06 Dodge Challenger Concept Car worked with my 1:12 scale V1.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/V1RemoteControl.jpg

Of course I'm joking! ;):LOL:=D

What can I say? I was bored! And before anyone says it, I know...I'm not right. :p

[MVRacing]

Thanks for the help with the 3D

Link in my post fixed.

Ok, I'm happy to see it will be a production RC. I'd recommend that you also contact Losi, because much of their designs can be quickly addapted.

Would love to see those documents & files ... if nothing else, so I can understand how this darn front end works. =D

Now, I need to decide if I go ahead with my build ... RC is due in May 8th, and I've been working on a workable front end design that didn't use motorcycle forks.

Anything I can do to help, let me know.

[MVRacing]

LMAO !! Good one Celtic!

[waboom]

This is fantastic news! That response from Ian is a huge morale boost!

One thing I'd just point out looking at the R/C frame from that French web site: you'd probably want to keep the center of gravity as low as possible (note that the batteries are installed below the tilting axis) That's because while this will look like a true V1, it probably won't have the DVC installed. That means it will be a bit prone to lifting up a rear wheel in a fast turn, or possibly flipping over. Keeping the CG low should help reduce/eliminate that.

Any legwork I can do, I'd gladly pitch in for this project.

Also, when viewing the 360 movie of the new design, you can also use the left/right arrow keys to move the video one frame at a time, so you can take your time and admire it from all angles.

[MVRacing]

Waboom,
I agree that the cg needs to be low, but you can't put the batteries too low because the body narrows toward the bottom. I was looking at having my main body floor at about where the door line on the body is. The other possibility, would be to turn the btry pack on its side.
Either way, it's more likely the model will spin instead of flip.

[CelticFlyer]

I can design the packaging! My company doesn't do flexography, but I know someone who does. =y:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/V1RCCarToyPackage.jpg

[Derwin]

Celtic,

How are you doing these things??? You are an "evil genius!" and I love how you use photoshop, if that IS what you have been using. That packaging looks fantastic! When we get further down the road with this project, I DEFINATELY want to talk with you about packaging this product.

Hey, I forgot to mention that Ian gave me this website to help us with our r/c project. I just checked it out, and it looks really great. The r/c vehicle they made is something that I think WE would want to create, except with the look of the Venture Vehicle. Anyway, here is the link: http://www.nikko-rc.com

Let me know what you think.

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Oh my gosh! I'm in love all over again! That video Ian shared with us is AMAZING! (I know, two demerits for overuse of exclamation points.)

Here it is again if anyone missed it: http://www.flytheroad.com/video/Concept_D_360.mov

Brother, I'm stoked. Thanks, Ian for the nod of approval and for all your help with the group project.

As the need draws near, let me know what you'd like me to do for the cause, Derwin. I'd enjoy taking part in that. ;)

And thanks for the link to the website. I'm going to explore it now...

[Miracleman89]

This is stellar!!!!! I am so thrilled over this! Ian's Nod! I am so down! What can I do to help?!

See I can overuse the exclamation point as well!lmao

[Derwin]

Isn't this incredible? I would have never believed we would get the nod from Ian. It just goes to show that Ian and the people at VV are really good, quality people that want to have a good relationship with us enthusiasts.

Anyway, if anybody can give any serious input that would help this project, please post it here, or send me an email at derwin@flytheroadclub.com We want this to be a top-notch, QUALITY product.

Thanks,

Derwin

[cpaddock]

Howzit Derwin! You da MAN! Many mahalos for your effort and sense of direction. I wanna play too, so please count me among the willing and able. Thoughtfully delgating responsibilities will be key to our success. Though we certainly won't want to cobble our RC model together from "spare parts", we do need to take advantage to whatever off-the-shelf components are available. Ian's willingness to file-share definately takes this
project to another level. You guys have really made my day!
Aloooooha!

[CelticFlyer]

I like the way Derwin phrased that..."serious." :LOL: (Read: no more cheesy Photochops!)

I agree with cpaddock. The "kit" that comprises the RC V1 should include parts that are readily available from a hobby store or online catalog. It should involve minimal scratch-building modifications. That would enable the manufacturers to have a steady and reliable source for materials, while keeping costs down. The "shell" of the kit is obviously very important, and it's obvious that it will be built in three components, two of them major. One, the front wheel fender, two the passenger pod, and three the engine pod. Crafting those will be the obvious focus of this project!

Wheels, gears, servos, springs, motors and battery pack are the guts of every RC vehicle, and the RC V1 will be no exception, but their arrangement may be a problem. For instance, I don't think you'd want to place a heavy battery pack in the passenger pod because it may affect the steering/leaning feature. Unfortunately, that only leaves the engine pod, which will most likely contain the motors and gearing to move the vehicle. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket; I just want to raise some valid concerns I have over the successful miniaturization of the V1.

Since I referred to the RC V1 as a "kit", has anyone given thought to assembling and producing one AS a kit, rather than a finished, off-the-shelf-of-your-local-toy-store toy? Obviously, detailed instructions would have to accompany the kit, and the appropriate age group would have to be determined for it's successful assembly. Just wondering.

[Derwin]

cpaddock......Thanks for the support! I accept your offer of help with this project. I don't know exactly how we should proceed with this, but I'll keep you and everyone updated. If you have any ideas, please post them here.

Celtic.....My "serious" remark was in no way a reference to what you have posted. I think your creativity is amazing, and I like what you did. It actually makes me visualize this finished product, and encourages me to get this thing done!

I wanted to have a completed vehicle that would be fully assembled, but I think a kit version would be a good idea also. Right now we have to figure out how exactly to proceed.

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

No worries, Derwin. I was just kiddin' with ya. The one thing I will never be accused of is taking myself too seriously. Trust me, I've got a thick skin. But let me know if I go too far; I don't want to derail threads! I'm glad you like the wacky photochops I've offered. They help sharpen my skills. Still have a long way to go, but I'm getting more comfortable with my programs!

Here's one of my latest "projects," a wire frame of the V1 based on art generated by cpaddock. It's still very much a work in progress, but hopefully, it's going to yield some quality vector art in the near future. I've just got to master gradient fills and blends. I bought a book on Illustrator this weekend and it's already given me some useful insights.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/FTRCLogo.jpg

Color to follow...;)

[MVRacing]

The "shell" of the kit is obviously very important, and it's obvious that it will be built in three components, two of them major. One, the front wheel fender, two the passenger pod, and three the engine pod. Crafting those will be the obvious focus of this project!


Agreed, our appearance has to be first class. But IMHO it has to be 4 parts ... the body will have to be 2 parts. Because the body tapers down to the bottom, if you attempt to do it all in lexan, the paint will flake off as you pull it open to go over the workings.

I would suggest a lower body pan of a more durable plastic to absorb road abuse ... coming up to about the lower door line level, then lexan from there up.

I was thinking of doing the main body floor at that level also, and attaching the body pivot point under the floor at the rear. That would position your batteries right on top of the pivot axis for low cg. Of course we could do a step design to center the batteries on that axis ... if the body is wide enough at that point to mount the battery pack. Just more involved.

IMHO batteries in the body will be just fine for weight distribution.

Having done RC cars & airplanes for years, I think this is easy ... except for that front end, and if we get the drawings, that won't be a problem either.

[Miracleman89]

Hey Big D will this help?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/listings/rcpsmfgs.html

[MVRacing]

Here are some scale sizes to consider:
Full size vehicle 140"L x 56"H x 40"W

1/8 scale = 17 1/2"L x 7"H x 5"W
1/7 scale = 20"L x 8 1/4" x 5 11/16"W
1/6 scale = 23 5/16"L x 9 5/16"H x 6 5/8"W

With those dimensions in mind ... I would "lean" toward 1/7th scale. Items to fit in - Servo (tilt) would be strong enough, receiver and motor controller small & easy fit, and battery pack (sized to motor) good fit. Motors for this size will give it plenty of zip ... should be enough to do donuts depending on gearing and top speed (~20 mph).

This scale would also allow some nice accurate detail of the suspension and other components. Like fully functional spings and oil filled shocks. The ability to change tires based on running surface - softer, better grip for wood/linolium floors. Harder for outside pavement/concrete surface.

I can also see doing a 1/16th scale (8 3/4"L) "kids" version (~$20) with a molded plastic chassis and body, powered by AA & 9v batteries.

I'd also like to have a 1/12th scale metal "diecast" type display model with opening door(s?), detailed interior etc.

[johnhead]

Gentlemen,
This is all great news however has it been "officially" determined if this will be an all electric or HYBRID model? (Electric or gas motor!)
Some of the same questions that plague Ian every day should be determined first here as well before getting too deep into the ordering of parts etc? Partially tougue in cheek...;)


Once again I am amazed by the talent of this fly the road "team"...

[Derwin]

Celtic, MVR, MM89......All good stuff! We have to find a way to organize all of this information so it is easy to access. Also, in case you missed it, Ian suggested that we could use the same tilting tech as used in this vehicle: http://www.nikko-rc.com That is the vehicle that Ian suggested we look at for ideas. Also, this R/C vehicle will be all electric (battery) powered.......Absolutely no gas involved! ;)

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Hi Dewin,
Yes, looked at that link... interesting. I couldn't find any pages on details, specs, part blow up, or even price - did I miss it? This looks more like the molded plastic "kids" model manufacturer to me IMHO.

Agreed - no gas =n: :)

Edit - Did a search and found SRP of $219.00

[johnhead]

Derwin, others,
The executive decision to go toally electric happend at the speed that should set the pace for the others to follow.. You guys are FAST...No comittee..or "black belt" team to "mull it over for a few weeks?? Keep up the GREAT WORK!
Your "times a wasting waste police":COP:
John

[MVRacing]

Here is a photo of what I'm thinking about for the rear pod. Minus the bumpers on the back of course.
Transmission also has changable gears if desired.

The shock layout closely approximates photos I've seen of the Carver rear end, and I'm fairly certain the V1 will be the same.

[rogwild]

MVR; don't forget the 'ball' for the trailer hitch!:LOL:
May have to do some 'cross-country' RC'in, and need the extra cargo space.:confused:
Gotta keep the process 'light hearted'.:p:rolleyes:
Great JOB Derwin! :Beer: I guess sometimes an 'Act of Congress' does actually get passed!;)
:IDEA:I might have my Christmas shopping list filled early.
I wonder how many V~1's we can have operating at once? I believe most 'kids' RC's come in 27 -- or 49 Mhz. Any others?:o

[rogwild]

Here's another YouTube video of the 'Tri-Jumper':
http://tinyurl.com/3gqp9h
Maybe somebody with the expertise can post it directly in their post.
We don't need (nor want) the 'jump' capability. Notice how they didn't cover many of the LANDINGS!
This project has me 'pumped'; now I have to wait on "UPDATES" on TWO projects!

[cpaddock]

Word of the day: "PROPRIETARY". In the design and manufacturing sense, proprietary
components are components that are unique to a specific manufacturer, and do not conform to preset standards. Read "expensive". Proprietary vs. off-the-shelf. For our RC model to come to fruition we need to minimize the number of parts that cannot be purchased/sourced ready-made. Die making and custom castings and stampings require
tooling (molds, forms) which can quickly take the price through the roof and delay and complicate the production sequence. That being said, it becomes a matter of compromise in the design phase. More on this later....
aloooooha!

[rogwild]

'cpaddock'; Thanks for the information and 'industrial lesson'. I sure hope this project can go all the way to a complete working RC model, but if it falls short, we will ALL learn some things in the process. (and maybe make the W-A-I-T for our REAL V~1's seem a bit shorter!):cry:

[MVRacing]

=y: =y: I GOT IT!! I GOT IT!! =y: =y:

It's so simple, it's so elegant you're going to love it!! I can make the front end look exactly like the V1 3d model and fully functional! The design just popped into my head fully formed. :IDEA:

All this time, I was trying to understand how the Carver front end worked ... all those links and that ugly single shock sticking out there ... what a headache. :confused: :mad:

[Derwin]

Well....what are you waiting for?!! Send your plans to me so I can take a look. Or, post them to this thread. Actually, I think we should divide this project up into several different threads that detail every aspect of this project.

=D

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Yeah, let's see whatcha got! =y:

One of the reasons I like the idea of the RC V1 being offered as a kit is that it would provide an opportunity for a great father-and-son exercise. I remember helping my dad build flying balsa wood airplane models. I mainly (tried to) read the instructions and hold parts together as the glue cured. And my dad did his best to remain patient as I asked "Can we fly it now?" for the hundredth time!

We live in a disposable society; when a toy breaks, we discard it and get another in it's place. Who actually takes the time to fix a broken toy? If you built it to begin with, you'd probably choose to fix it yourself. And a kit could be sold in toy stores just as easily as an assembled one. I've seen snap-together, friction-built, and outright "assembly required" toys in stores for years. The obvious advantage here is that you wouldn't have to farm out the labor to assemble them, nor would you have to do it yourself. I think it's a viable option to a fully-assembled item.

[Derwin]

O.K. I think we need to put up a poll right at the start of this to decide what direction to go in with this project. Do we want to have a "ready built" vehicle, or a vehicle in "kit" form? I don't really want to waste "too much" time with this, but It think a poll for this would be good to get us started.

MVR also mentioned that we should come out with a die-cast model, and I agree. This will be the second thing to accomplish once this first project is completed.

Derwin

I JUST PUT A POLL UP, AND IT IS AT THE TOP OF THIS THREAD. PLEASE VOTE IN THIS POLL IF YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE.

[cpaddock]

Well I voted for "ready built" but would definately enjoy the DIY approach. I was Mr. model builder as a kid and still am! I just had more "spare" time back then. There could be a considerable difference in price between the two....this could affect the purchase decision for many of us. But then so would "Some assembly required". At this point, what does your high end RC go for, $200, $300 ? That would be my ceiling and I would settle for the Diecast version. I agree with Celtic, rampant consumerism can be offset through the investment of Personal effort.
MCR, can't wait to see your solution! The same thing happens to me...I'll wake up in the morning, sometime 3:00 in the morning, and know exactly what I need to do, as though the info was input from an outside source!
You da MAN!
Curves Ahead!

[cpaddock]

Derwin, et al.... I absolutely agree we need to get organized now that we have the green light from Ian. I nominate Mark Tomlinson as someone who has shown he has the knowledge and skills to do this...read post #24 this thread. Organization is priority number one. I think we have enough input now to identify the various catagories of effort we'll be addressing. Listing parameters and getting commitments for ACTION
from eager participants will get this thing on a fast track.
For the list: 1. early decisions for which polling is already under way. This seems a good way to acheive concensus, and make progess.
2. Identify which components will be proprietary and which will be off-the-shelf.
3. Do we have any "solid works" CAD type talent among us? This is a mechanical interface program which can identify parts interference and show components in motion.
Coupled with the surface web e-file from VV we can do most of our prototyping virtually, and end up with a CAD file for manufacturers to use.
Curves ahead!

[Miracleman89]

It is looking like a ready built model is the way most are leaning!

Also I did some looking for a tri jumper and It appears not to be sold in the states!( I thought that was odd.)

Hey Derwin on that link I sent you, you can search for specific items. I found several electric motors, as well as radio frequency transmitters. I mean there was so much stuff that could be found it was great! Anyway, I am glad it may help!

[johnhead]

MVR.. Just a quick sketch of a mono front suspension arm with an internal steering link. Mount the front wheel on the threaded post and steer by pushing, pulling on the internal link. The entire swing arm can pivot between two rear pins if necessary and not a through shaft. for suspension you can mount some torsion springs between the "pivot pins" and the "swing arm". You can fabricate it out of some retangular aluminum stock and "hide" the entire steering inside it?
Just food for thought:IDEA:
John

[MVRacing]

Thanks johnhead! Hey Derwin, I think we found our draftsman =D johnhead, you interested?

Your design is very good, but overly complicated IMHO ... check earlier posts ... we don't need to steer the front wheel, it self steers with the tilt. So, the threaded axle can free pivot (it will need stops/limiters).

From the collar (insert set screw) , I was thinking of a shaft thru 2 bearings (C clips for keepers) that then bends 90 degrees. From the end of that we attach our single shock/spring. Hope you can catch my drift from that discription.

I'm working on some rough drawings now to scan and upload. Give me a few days, haven't done any drafting since HS =n:

[johnhead]

MVR Got the drift, Thanks.
The compression spring /single shock off of the front pivot sounds easy enought. And not having to steer the front wheel surely simplifies things. Pivot the rear "pod" as V1 does and use 1/2 of a reversed "ring gear" (with a pinion on the inside) attached to a servo to controll all the leaning. Now for driving the rear wheels. To drive one or both? No differential required if you only drive one. Your thoughts?:)
I'd love to design... however as I was trained "on a board" my CAD ability is limited. I'd be glad to work with you on "sketching design ideas" however the true CAD guys could lay them out much quicker than I can.
Any other "volunteers" from our members?=y:

[MVRacing]

I was thinking of a transmission/differential from Losi as in the link I posted. Drives both wheels, and you can fairly easily change the gear ratios if you wanted. Or at least it allows us to easily set them for enough torque to do spins and a top speed of ~20mph. The trans case is also the inboard suspension carrier.

For the pivot, I was thinking 1/4"id tube (run the motor wires thru it) supported by 2 bearings on both the "pod" pan, and the "body" pan located/retained by C clips. Main consideration for this is that the angle MUST intersect the ground plane at the front tire contact patch. Otherwise, as you pivot it would hump or sag.

For tilt control ... like you I initially thought of gearing, but check this out ... what do you think of having an adjustable link tied to the front of the pod, outboard corner (and a fake on the other side)? That would look similar to the hydralic pistons of the DCV, and I think I can get them in almost the same body location. The bell crank length on the servo will be critical (needs to be worked out), and then the adjustable length link will allow adjustment of the tilt to the spec 45 degrees.

Great drawing and insightful comments johnhead, thanks so much for participating! I really need someone to bounce ideas with.

Anyone with CAD skills want to volunteer? =y:

[cpaddock]

Sure is fun listening in on this creative prosess. Really inspired! How did we get so lucky as to have such talent and knowhow ready and willing to rock and roll? Your mechanical insights are making great sense, drawings will help of course. If this is the R&D department, we also need a scaled down version of Ian's business flow chart, put together by someone in the "Implementation Department" Volunteers?
Curves ahead!

[Derwin]

I really LOVE all of the ideas that are flowing. Ideas are the way we will get this thing built, but we need to make sure that the IDEAS will actually work in the real vehicle.

Ian suggested that we could possibly use the same technology that the NIKKO vehicle uses to tilt. I don't know. Here is the video:

dPRaazbQM2E&hl

If we can use an existing technology that has been already proven, I think it would be a lot easier. But if you guys can come up with a better idea, then by all means we will use it instead. The main thing is that we have to come up with a working tilting vehicle. The body of this vehicle will be easy once the mechanics are figured out.

As soon as anybody can come up with a feasible design, please post it here. Thanks.

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Morn'n Derwin,
unfortunately, I/we can't tell anything from the NIKKO video. Even the French trike video with no body, the tilting mechanism is obscured, but you can see his tilt limiting chain on one side and cable on the other.

[MVRacing]

Derwin,
Have you received the files from VV yet?

One of the other areas I have questions about ... we need to know the body shape/size so that at different levels (above ground plane) we can figure out the size of the floor pan we can put in it.

This determines the layout of components ... not just brty, rcvr, but also tilt servo, pivot attachment, and front suspension attachments.

I am working on drawings making some assumptions re:body size, but with out the data, it's just a time wasting exercise.

IMHO, we have all the mechanics worked out ... we just need data to finalize the design.=y:

[Derwin]

Hello! I will contact Ian today in regards to the surface meshes in IGES format. Hopefully he will get them to us soon.

You said that "we have all the mechanics worked out..." Really? Please send me specifications or post them to this forum. Do you have CAD drawings or anything else? If you have the mechanics figured out, then we should be able to get a working vehicle up and running very quickly. I can even send the specifications to friends at a factory to create a prototype, and then begin production. I thought we wouldn't be doing that for at least a couple months, but if we're ready now...that's great!

Derwin

[rogwild]

Since we won't (at least from the above discussions) have front wheel steering at low speeds (like the Carver ONE & V~1), then perhaps a linkage from the front tilting pod to the rear drive axles, could 'tighten up' the turn radius.
What I mean is; when the body tilts 45* degrees LEFT, it could turn the rear drive wheels (entire wheel drive mechanism) perhaps 20* to the RIGHT. It could be proportional so that a 20* tilt would only steer the rear drive assembly perhaps 8-10*. Don't know if it would 'over-complicate' the design, but it would allow for a tighter turning radius. Thoughts/comments?
I'm not sure how this would affect turns at higher speeds, but it would make impressive 'doughnuts'!

[Derwin]

Rogwild, I agree. That's why I think the french design of this model may be what we are looking for, except with a few modifications. Here it is again:

k0NrC5hLZJM

[cpaddock]

Howzit Derwin! Just wondering....doesn't there need to be some sort of "design rights" documentation written up before we "go public"? We have R&D covered it appears. You seem the obvious choice for "Implementation", and probably "Distribution". Don't we need to create a "paper trail"? I know these terms, but am not the guy who can write it in a coherent, standard business format. Where are the flow charts, the spread sheets, the cost analysis forcasts? We need some of this data in order to make informed decisions
such as ready-built or kit, component supplier links/costs. Someone, most likely you, will stand to actually make a profit on this Venture. Imagine one model V1 for every full-sized
unit sold. We are talking thousands of RC's. It's not too soon to start putting together a business plan. We need to protect ourselves by becoming some sort of legal entity, don't we? Or am I just waaaaay out in left field?
Curves ahead!

[Derwin]

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=328&stc=1&d=1208885496

My company, Beushausen Enterprises, Inc., is handling all of the "paperwork" in regards to this project. I will be investing a few thousand dollars in getting this project off the ground, and even more in the actual production of the end product.

My thoughts are to create 2 seperate r/c vehicles. One will be a "members only" model which would be made of a more substantial material, i.e. metal; and a general model which would be made of a durable plastic. I also intend on giving members a discount on the cost of the finished product. In other words, I am not looking to "bilk" members of the club out of one penny. I am in this for the fun of designing and creating this vehicle, and because I am a Venture Vehicle enthusiast.

I hope this clears the air a little in regards to this project. =y:

Derwin

[WarpedOne]

Derwin, you rule :D

[cpaddock]

Thank you Derwin for the feedback! That certainly clarifies a lot regarding who will be responsible for what. And please don't misunderstand me: I HOPE you make some money on this, at least recouping your investment. Nobody deserves it more than you. Nothing undermines my enthusiasm for a project like the prospect of losing money on it. Having said that, if you are the prime mover, may I suggest you make available some sort of listing of priorities and resposibilities that we can sign on to? I think such a list would enable more participation by more enthusiastic members who just want to be a part of this awsome endeavor.
Curves Ahead!

[MVRacing]

Derwin,
With all that in mind ...are you sure you want me to put designs on this public web site?

[Derwin]

MVR,

This is what I have been thinking about, and you have a point. I'm going to open a "private" forum that will be open to only those involved in this project in a real and substantial way. One of the conditions of having access to that forum in the club, will be to agree to a declaration of privacy.

I HAVE JUST CREATED THE PRIVATE FORUM FOR THIS PROJECT. IT IS PASSWORD PROTECTED.

IF YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS R/C VEHICLE, AND HAVE SOMETHING SUBSTANTIAL/MEANINGFUL TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS PROJECT, PLEASE SEND ME AN EMAIL: derwin@flytheroadclub.com

In your email please state that you agree to keep any and all information confidential, and that the help you provide will become proprietary to the FlyTheRoad Club and Beushausen Enterprises., and that we can use it in the development of this vehicle.

The new private forum is for posting various specs, CAD documents, drawings, and other attachments. We will still have an OPEN discussion of this project in THIS public forum open to all members.

The new PRIVATE forum is located here: http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=409

Derwin

[johnhead]

MVR,
attached are three drawings (NOT to scale) in the two "geared type" the half round attches directly to the "passenger pod" and the motor to the "engine pod". The only difference is if you can package it easier with the motor in a vertical or horizontal position. The "link" design has the slotted link Pivoting at the Pivot joint between the two "pods". the top pin of the link is attached to the passenger pod and the motor is attached to the "engine pod". Depending on link length, slot length etc. you could use the slot length as a "stop" to controll the maximum lean angle in either direction?
Once again choose any or none.. Just fun for me...

[Derwin]

John,

Very nice. Thanks for your help. Do you have more detailed specs as to how this would fit in the entire vehicle? I think your drawings look very feasible. Thanks for your help.

Derwin

[cpaddock]

Johnhead, cool workings! My question is this; how might a "servo" push rod do the same thing, and does it accomplish its motion thru a rack and pinion, or is this basicly what you have designed with the semi circle gearing?
Thanks
CP

[MVRacing]

Hi ya johnhead,
Great drawings! What program are you using?

IMHO the two gearing methods won't work for this application ... we would need to keep tollerances between the pod and body too tight to ensure proper meshing.

The slotted method will work just fine, but I think I can work it so that it will be laid out just like the DCV hydralics, only using solid links. I'll get busy and do a drawing for the secure thread (tomorrow?).

Again, great stuff!

[johnhead]

MVR,
I just sketched these drawings in Paint. It' the only "CAD" program on my desktop at work... Like I said I'm very "basic." I have been restoring vintage motorcycles for 30 years. I have a Mechanical degree, and a pretty good idea of the workings of "mechanical" design. Unfortunately very little knowledge of RC cars and what is available for constructing them. I did a quick search a while ago on RC models however most things were bigger wheels, and faster motors etc..

cpaddock-I haven't seen an RC servo yet.. Two of the designs are a rack and pinon design. The link design is just a crank on a motor enclosed in a slotted "link" that pivots around the Pod pivot joint and is fixed to the top of the passenger pod.

Derwin- No detailed specs yet..Not sure who will be the Mgr. of the MODEL DESIGN TEAM? (NOT ME) but I would like to be included if possible? The specifics need to be determined based on the scale, and layout of the components. That's why I enclosed two rack designs. One is better for high mounting of the motor and the other is better as a low mounted system...
Thanks for including me in your conversation.
Regards
John Head
P.S.-My spelling and typing errors are intentional;)

[Mark Tomlinson]

Derwin, et al.... I absolutely agree we need to get organized now that we have the green light from Ian. I nominate Mark Tomlinson as someone who has shown he has the knowledge and skills to do this...read post #24 this thread. Organization is priority number one. I think we have enough input now to identify the various catagories of effort we'll be addressing. Listing parameters and getting commitments for ACTION
from eager participants will get this thing on a fast track.


Flattered. But if nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve. Sorry folks, I've got an awful lot on my plate nowadays and I can't take this on as well.

Pencil me in as a consultant.

[Derwin]

Flattered. But if nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve.

Hmmm. Where have I heard that before? You made the same Shermanesque statement when I nominated you to be the administrator of the club! :)

I think we can get this all together fairly quickly. I want some input from all of you in regards to using the design in the French persons vehicle. Do you think we can use the MECHANICS of that design?

Derwin

[rogwild]

From the looks of the video, the French design is 'operational'. It might be able to be 'modified' with the "rear wheel steering" (which it presently does not have), like I mentioned earlier to tighten the turn radius (since the front wheel will not turn at low speeds), if necessary or desired.

My take on the 'kit' vs 'complete unit'; is sort of to take the Vv approach. First create an ALPHA (from stock or 'modified' common parts to work out any problems). These plans/parts could be offered to club members in a 'kit' form (without any body shell). The BETA could be the final "complete unit" for sale. The outer body/shell either plastic (or upgraded collector's metal version) could later be made available as a 'snap-on' or bolt-on addition to those that built the earlier 'kits'. That way we could get some vehicles into the hands of 'testers' early (keep us busy and motivated), and maybe find some improvement areas for the BETA's. Also it would provide some cash flow to help finance any 'tooling' for the production models.

[CelticFlyer]

That's a sound idea. ;)

It would satisfy those of us who take pride in creating things, and enable others to enjoy instant gratification.

[cpaddock]

I second Rogwild's input! Question: don't we need to acquire an actual unit of the French
fried tilter in order to make any kind of informed decision? Someone (MVR) needs to play with it, take it apart, etc. Again, the ratio of track width to track length needs to be
adjusted to match the V1. This will no doubt occur as the redesigned front suspension is added. Also we need the model to determine the exact relative scale.

[MVRacing]

I think we can get this all together fairly quickly. I want some input from all of you in regards to using the design in the French persons vehicle. Do you think we can use the MECHANICS of that design?

Derwin

Humm, I look at this 3 ways ... one, if I don't see it then when our design comes out there is no patent infringement ... right?

Secondly, it has no suspension (part of the reason it spins so easily), it has motorcycle front forks, it's drive unit is a combination of gears and chain (it appears).

Finally, it just doesn't look right/similar to the V1 in mechanical design ... IMHO we can do much better.

[Derwin]

Finally, it just doesn't look right/similar to the V1 in mechanical design ... IMHO we can do much better.

O.K. Well, let's keep all options open for right now. I also have a company working on this project, and they should have some ideas also. I'll keep everybody updated.

Derwin

[JoeU]

Tilting mecahanisms. I think the center drawing would be the easiest to make work. :) The other two seem harder to construct.

[rogwild]

On the 'tilting mechanism', I agree K.I.S.S., make it simple and robust! We can add exterior parts that 'appear' to function like the Carver One/ V~1's DVC, that move when the vehicle tilts, but do not actually CONTROL the tilting. A simple, reliable control method is what is required, if kids (and BIG 'kids') are going to be using it.

[johnhead]

Team,
I have been slowly working on a "scaled" drawing of front suspension and rear tilting mechanism's. One thing that became evident is that ,while I would like to use "off the shelf" parts, to keep cost down the wheels and tires available are somewhat limited. I would suggest that some "off the shelf" items are looked at and our model scaled around them? (wheels, tires, servos etc.) It may be more cost effective to select the available high cost items then design the body etc. to fit? Your input?

[CelticFlyer]

I think that's wise. No point in designing and building a great looking passenger and engine pod if it has to rest on goofy-looking wheels!

We should scour online catalogs and local hobby shops for the closest possible fits.

[MVRacing]

Hi all,
in a 1/7th scale I'm "leaning" toward, a rear 15" wheel results in 2 1/8" which is fairly common. Tower Hobbies alone has over 7 pgs of tire/wheels. I even saw one set at a hobby store that looked just like the illustration on the official site - 5 double spoke in chrome. Front motorcycle wheel I have not yet researched.

[Derwin]

Johnhead,

Great work. I love your enthusiasm! Please remember to post any drawings/designs that you may have, over at the PRIVATE forum created for the developement of this r/c vehicle.

MVR,

I think we should now LOCK-IN the 1:7 scale for this project. From here on out let's design everything for this scale. I just want to make sure we are all on the same page.

The French guy should be getting back from vacation in another few days. At that time I should have an agreement worked out with him. I think we can use the tilting technology in his design. What do you think?

Derwin

[rogwild]

Derwin, once he gets back and corresponds, perhaps we can figure out what 'scale' his working model would represent for a vehicle of the V~1's proposed dimensions. From the video, the overall size seems just about right (large enough, not to have 'tiny' parts, and not TOO LARGE to be used for display purposes).

[johnhead]

I will update the private group. However I am currently at work and I have left my password at home..Grrr..
so for now it's public...
No problem for now.. Once again (for my fun) I'll keep working on sketching tilting desings... One concept that just came to mind that is dead simple.. Just put a "split round drum on the servo..Wind a thin cable around it and attach the ends of the cable to the engine "pod". Depending on attachment points, drum diameter etc. a 90degree rotation of the servo could pull/push the main body the required distance..? No links to adjust...? attach a small tension spring at one end of the cable to keep it tight at all times... Very little space needed!:IDEA:

[rogwild]

A couple things to 'think about' when working on the tilting mechanism design;
1) It would be helpful if the vehicle would revert to the 'upright position' when no steering inputs commands are sent. (probably goes without saying, but thought I'd mention it anyway)
2) Since this will be a 'detailed' copy of the V~1 (and may be used for DISPLAY) it would be nice if when not operating under RC control; that the body pod could be easily be positioned to different 'tilt angles' with the power OFF, without damaging any of the 'tilt mechanism' components.

[MVRacing]

=y: Ok, 1:7 locked and loaded =y:

John, drum & cable ... interesting, but what if it slips either from use or impact? The link ball ends would pop off under impact.

Derwin, IMHO the tilt is no problem.

rogwild, the tilt servo automatically returns to the neutral (upright) position when there is no input. When power is off (display) you will be able to position it at any angle and it will hold. No damage to link or servo. Humm, John, a cable may slip in this instance when you are pushing against the servo gear train.

[MVRacing]

RC model is in, so I'll be starting on my "RC Alpha" this weekend. :p =y:

[johnhead]

If you get the chance can you post a photo of the internal workings of your new "Toy"?
.... Enjoy it... But don't break it until we get a chance to ...play too! =y:
(post to the private link if necessary)...Thanks ...
John

[CelticFlyer]

Funny you should mention "breaking" things... =D

I've only had my '06 Dodge Challenger Concept RC Car model for a couple of weeks, but I've almost trashed it! I keep running it into walls. There's only an extra bumper on the front, so the back is taking an awful beating. In fact, the bumper has detached from the rest of the shell and I cannot get it back into it's original place! Needless to say, these things are best played with OUTDOORS!

Has anyone given any thought to how we can reinforce the RC V1 to resist damage?

[Derwin]

Has anyone given any thought to how we can reinforce the RC V1 to resist damage?

That's a good thought. I think we should have rubber bumpers that are durable. I don't know how that would affect the cost, but we should at least look into it.

Well, I still have not heard anything from Ian yet. I have sent him numerous emails, but he simply has decided not to respond. I am sure he is busy with the REAL vehicle, so I'll cut him some slack!

Hopefully, I'll be hearing from the French guy soon pertaining to getting the rights to his r/c tilting vehicle.

I'll keep you posted.

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Celtic,
Excellent point. I can think of ways to protect the bottom and rear, but the front end is going to take some planning. No way to put a bumper in front and stay within our design goals. Perhaps some sort of break away, or make it massively strong.

[waboom]

MVR,
Wouldn't the front tire behave as a natural bumper? I mean, if it's a rubber tire it should stand up to a good bit of impact abuse. The only problem I see is how that impact force is transferred from the front tire/assembly to the main chassis. I'd say either make it strong like you suggested, or (adding complexity to the design here, so shoot down as fast as you want) change how the front end attaches to the main chassis by adding in 2 horizontal front-facing springs/shocks between the front wheel assembly and the main chassis.

[cpaddock]

MVR, WABOOM, ET.AL.....I had the same thought:front rubber tire IS Rubber Baby Buggy Bumper!:) But you are right, the axel and and castor feature should be beefed up and
a couple of spring shocks couldn't hurt either.
Carry on!

[MVRacing]

Hi All,
One of the things I teach in the race school is - Sooner or later you will wreck ... your error, the other guys fault, or just a mechanical malfunction, so plan for it in your budget.

So, in the case of the front end ... no matter how strong we make it, sooner or later it will break. The smart thing to do is design it so it breaks where we want - a place that is cheap/easy to repair.

[RAN]

So, in the case of the front end ... no matter how strong we make it, sooner or later it will break. The smart thing to do is design it so it breaks where we want - a place that is cheap/easy to repair.

Dang MV, I like the way you think! =y:

[MVRacing]

I'll post some photos for my RC Alpha build soon as I can figure out how to reduce the file size.

Any advise? :confused:

[Derwin]

MVR,

You can send me the files by email if you want, and I can post them to the forum.

The way I reduce the size of an image is simply by using a photo program like photoshop or adobe fireworks. It's really easy.

Derwin

[johnhead]

MVR, Derwin,
When I tried to post my "paint" fomatted bodies to the forum it was rejected because it was too large a file. What I found to work was to do a "save as" and save it as a jpg. file. I then could upload the jpg file. Hope this may help?
I really don't enjoy computers half as much as mechanical things!:confused:
John Head

[MVRacing]

I really don't enjoy computers half as much as mechanical things!:confused:
John Head

Boy do I agree!!

[Necoras]

On the front tire design, I'd put the whole thing on two shocks, either springs or airbags. Give 6 inches of crumple zone type material that will bounce back. I think the only other real option is the break away front wheel that MVR mentioned, and that doesn't sit very well with me for some reason. A 'super strong' front end really isn't feasable with the wheel projected out like it is. A spring system which will give in any direction (up down in and sideways) seems like the best way to prevent a total hardware failure. I'm not sure what this would do to the steering exactly, but then that's why I'm not a hardware engineer :).

MVR, as for your filesize limitations, always post online with a JPG. MS Paint is a sorry piece of software, but it can reformat images well enough. Just open your images, select save as and choose JPEG in the "Save as type" dropdown. That should shrink the file enough for the forum to handle it. Looking forward to the pics.

Also, I appologize if I'm repeating a question here (I browsed this thread, but 14 pages is still 14 pages). Do we have a final cost estimate for these? Are we talking $2-300 or $1K+? I'd reeeeeeally like to get one, but I can only justify so much on what eventually comes down to a (kickass) toy. Also, would the fully assembled vs kit versions have any influence on price? I'd like to do some assembly on it regardless (provided there are VERY detailed instructions) and if that lowers the price some, so much the better.

I really appreciate what you guys are doing with this. It's great to watch development procede on something related to the V1 project while the main guys are busy.

One final thing and I'll shut up. It just popped into my head that it would be really awesome if you could rig the controls in the full size V1 to control the RC V1. Seeing the 2 move in unison would be priceless. Yes, I'm aware that this is probably technically infeasible, but still, gotta give the mental image props ;).

[MVRacing]

[quote=Necoras;4187]Do we have a final cost estimate for these? Are we talking $2-300 or $1K+?
It just popped into my head that it would be really awesome if you could rig the controls in the full size V1 to control the RC V1. Seeing the 2 move in unison would be priceless. [quote]

You hit it...I'm thinking $200-$300, based on the level of build & quality I see in the hobby stores.

Now that would be cool ... I'll leave that to some one else =D

[Derwin]

Also, I appologize if I'm repeating a question here (I browsed this thread, but 14 pages is still 14 pages). Do we have a final cost estimate for these? Are we talking $2-300 or $1K+? I'd reeeeeeally like to get one, but I can only justify so much on what eventually comes down to a (kickass) toy.

Hello! We are still in the design phase of this project, and really don't know what the final "retail" cost will be. But I would imagine it would be the same cost of a high-end remote control vehicle.....somewhere around a few hundred dollars. But, again, I just don't know...it could be a little more, and it could be a lot less! I know that didn't help you much, but keep an eye on this thread. We should be reaching a point real soon where all of the parts and costs can be calculated.

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Ok, been thinking about that front end. What if we make a flange off the torsion spring unit and mount it to the chassis with 3 screws and 3 springs to hold it down to the chassis?
John, what do you think? Would that give us more survivability for frontal impacts?

[cpaddock]

MVR, could you mount the flange with rubber shock mounts, like machine vibration isolators?

[Necoras]

Did I miss the Alpha photos? I'm not seeing them anywhere.

[Derwin]

Well, fella's, I just heard back from our fearless leader......Ian! He has been out of town lately, and will be arriving back in L.A. soon. He promised to get the files for this project to us when he gets back.

GOOD NEWS! =y:

Derwin

[cpaddock]

Derwin, MVR et al. in that case I'm glad I didn't jump the gun on starting a prototype body build as I suspect that the files will represent the modified "D" which Ian mentioned
previously. However those files could make a hand-built prototype go quicker and of course be more accurate. In creating a "male" plug/form first, fine details such as door
outlines and crisp window edges are possible. What happens when you thermo form
a sheet of plastic over it is that you lose those details, and hence, realism. If the added step is taken to layup a set of "female" molds on the plug, then when you form on the inside surface you get all the details of the original. Derwin will want to consult with his manufacturer about the feasability of this approach. By hand, for a limited edition to work out prototyping details, I could initially do a carbon fiber layup. Should be able to put the whole form in a vacuum bag and get superior results. Getting excited!
Curves ahead!

[MVRacing]

Did I miss the Alpha photos? I'm not seeing them anywhere.

RC Alpha photos are on the secure thread.

For those of you who don't have access, progress is coming along well =y:

[Derwin]

Well, I just heard back from the French guy about selling the plans to his r/c. Here is what he wrote me:

Hello Derwin,


For all the detailed plans and list of the parts of the vehicle, the price is 5000 euros. Furthermore, I would like us to sign a sort of (light) contract, in which will be written that these information are for your own use only, without commercial aim. Let me please know your opinion about this proposal.

Thanks.

Philippe

Needless to say, I don't have this kind of money to spend on this project. And, even if I did, I would NOT pay that much money for simple plans and a parts list! This is completely ridiculous.

Anyway, I guess we will be going in a different direction.

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Time to put on our collective thinking caps! :IDEA:

I'm certainly no engineer, but it seems that we've got enough critical thinkers and science-types here to fill the bill!

Now, if you want to package this puppy and market in a way that will have 'em flying off the shelves, I'm your man. ;)

[MVRacing]

Derwin,
No loss IMHO ... I think I'll have The RC Alpha up & running in about 2 weeks. Would be sooner, but so much other stuff going on right now.

[cpaddock]

That's good news to me. We CAN do this ourselves, and for a lot less money. The prototyping phase anyway. Mass manufacturing is another matter. Did I mention I speak
Mandarin? We could call it the "Freedom Flyer"!!!!
Curves Ahead!

[johnhead]

I've lost it? Hey guys I had downloaded on my home PC a rotational "video" of the VV concept. It either came from this site OR the VV site. I lost it last week when my home PC went belly up.. I'm trying to reloacate it? It was a digital view and not a real vehicle however it looked great..
any help appreciated.

[Derwin]

Here's the link for where Ian posted it on the official site:

www.flytheroad.com/video/Concept_D_360.mov

Hope this helps.

Derwin

[johnhead]

Thanks Derwin, just what I was looking for.
Regards
John

[BeepBeep]

Ever see this concept ?

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmws-clever-concept-completed.html

[rogwild]

Ever see this concept ?

Yep! If you do a [search] for clever, you will find numerous posts on this site already. Even a Thread that I started on the BMW Clever.

[BeepBeep]

Thanks for the reply. I did a little searching but didn't see it. Just was curious. Nothing more.

[V BUZZ]

if you all can put together basic drawings on a piece of paper with basic dimensions i can create a cad model for you and also machine a vacuum form tool for the bodies with my cnc machine and the same goes for any other parts that might need to be machined

i can build the whole assembly in cad no problem but i will need basic dimensions to do so

[rogwild]

Welcome, '*V*BUZZ', you may just be the 'project' savior. Derwin is waiting on dimensions from Ian, so we all have to be patient on that. Where are you located?

[V BUZZ]

Welcome, '*V*BUZZ', you may just be the 'project' savior. Derwin is waiting on dimensions from Ian, so we all have to be patient on that. Where are you located?



im in southern california and thanks for having me :-)

[Derwin]

Thanks for joining the r/c design team. Hopefully we can get this thing together, and have a working vehicle to play with while we wait for the REAL thing!

Derwin

[Derwin]

I just want to let people know that I just received an email from Ian, and he has provided us with the files for our r/c project.

IAN IS ALIVE AND WELL!! =D

Derwin

[cpaddock]

Hey, that's fantastic news that Ian sent the file. But how many of us have auto cad?
Not me. What happened to the post by VBuzz about the Solidworks program? Would this enable us to see this file? Did you delete it because of the bootleg aspect? Somebody
who can, please print, scan and upload this file for our viewing pleasure....PLEEEEZE!
Mahalo!

[Derwin]

cpaddock, go to the private forum to see the file. He posted a screen capture of it, but it does not do it justice.

Anyway, Ian really came through on that file, and we are now working to get very accurate measurments. I just send Ian another email asking for some more detailed files so we can make this r/c vehicle as accurate as possible. Hopefully I'll be hearing back from him soon.

Derwin

[rogwild]

From the data that Ian supplied, what is the final 'width' of the Power Pod?
Ian has stated many times; "Exactly 1 meter is the actual objective. There's a "48 inch" minimum requirement in the current statute covering this vehicle classification, and we're seeing about having it amended.":COP:

Just want to know what the 'current thinking' is; may change if the statute (? not sure which one ?) is amended. It will require taking more 'space' out of an already 'cramped' Power Pod.:eek:

Perhaps we should consider a 'min width' in designing our R/C model, just in case Vv makes a change later in the development/production phases.:IDEA:

[MVRacing]

From the data that Ian supplied, what is the final 'width' of the Power Pod?
Ian has stated many times; "Exactly 1 meter is the actual objective. There's a "48 inch" minimum requirement in the current statute covering this vehicle classification, and we're seeing about having it amended.":COP:
Perhaps we should consider a 'min width' in designing our R/C model, just in case Vv makes a change later in the development/production phases.:IDEA:

Hi Rogwild,
From the CAD files, the actual width is 1M/39.9 inches. This makes our RC pod width 5.7" ... no problem with any changes at this point in the RC Alpha. I would just cut down the rear suspension A frames some more.

Once we get closer to actual production of the final pieces, then I'm sure we'll have Ian's support for any latest changes as he also wants a quality scale unit.

Umm, one of the articles recently mentioned Vv had hired a lobbyist.

[rogwild]

Thanks, MVR. Boy that is NARROW, I wonder what the Carver One is.(more research) I would really like to know what the "current statute" is; California or Federal, and what it pertains to, vehicle registration, HOV lane usage, helmet requirements, or 'Vhatever'. Guess I'll have to do a little 'sleuthing'.......seems like I'll have plenty of time.

p.s. Found Carver One spec.s = 3.4mtr long; 1.3mtr wide; 1.4mtr high (Wikipedia)

[MVRacing]

Just an update for those not on the "Front suspension" thread.

The RC Alpha is pretty much complete except for the front end. A full size mock up of the front end redesign was done to prove the concept ... and machining was started on the scale unit. As soon as he gets that done, I can have it assembled in a day and running, I'll then post a video.

In the mean time I am pressing ahead with CAD designs of the final unit aided by V BUZZ (my brother).

Still to be determined is weather or not this motor unit is too powerful for the prototype. Even if it is, the change will be fairly easy. The CAD files Ian provided are very detailed and powerful.

Now I know how Ian feels ... waiting for other people to complete their part :o

[Derwin]

Very cool. Can't wait to see what you and your brother have come up with.

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Yeah. A video would be cool! =y:

[Derwin]

CF,

I made Miracleman89 (Brian) a few pin-back buttons using your poster design. They came out pretty neat looking. Thanks again for the time you have put in, and for generating a little excitment in this club! :)

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Sure thing! Still pluggin' away on the next project. But I'm gonna hold off on posting anything else until it nears completion. I'm having a ball. Thanks for giving me something creative to do!

[Derwin]

I just finished a short discussion with MVR and his brother in the Club Chat Room. I was informed that the parts for this r/c project will cost approximately 30 to 40 thousand dollars. Well, needles to say, this is not what I ever had in mind when I announced this project. =n:

This project was initially started as a way to pass the time amongst members. I thought I would spend a few hundred and maybe even a few thousand dollars (At the MOST!).

My intention was to create a nice little r/c vehicle that could be made locally, or even farmed out to a Chinese factory. The costs involved (in my mind) would be very small, and we would have a nice little vehicle at the end of it all. =y:

If my intentions were misread by some members, I truly apologize. :o

Hopefully we can still work together to get a nice r/c vehicle without costing us an arm and a leg. Heck, with $40,000 I could import a Carver and have the real thing!

Derwin

[waboom]

Hard luck, guys. I am glad, though, that the message was "the project is in trouble because of money issues," instead of "the project is in trouble because of lack of talented people participating!" We've got a great group of people on this project, and my hat is off to each and every one of you!

And as far as your intentions Derwin, they weren't misread, by me at least. That's what I had been envisioning from the start.

On a slight tangent, would the high costs reflected here also be applicable to the idea of creating a V1 scale model car, either a "Matchbox" variety or a 1:12 fully-assembled vehicle, either die-cast, injection-plastic, resin, (or some other manufacturing process)?

[Derwin]

On a slight tangent, would the high costs reflected here also be applicable to the idea of creating a V1 scale model car, either a "Matchbox" variety or a 1:12 fully-assembled vehicle, either die-cast, injection-plastic, resin, (or some other manufacturing process)?

I would THINK that a small die-cast model would be fairly inexpensive to get made. But that's what I thought about the r/c!! :o

Good idea, though. We should look into it.

Derwin

[waboom]

The CAD files you got from Ian show exterior details, correct? I've never tried it before, but I would imagine any manufacturing house would require the design of a "matchbox" or model car to be in CAD format.

[MVRacing]

The CAD files you got from Ian show exterior details, correct? I've never tried it before, but I would imagine any manufacturing house would require the design of a "matchbox" or model car to be in CAD format.

No, the Cad files do not have exterior details that would be needed for a model or diecast. It has the shape, but no door lines, door handles, window lines, ect.
The file could be used for shape and dimensions, then the details added.

I have no idea what the tooling for a diecast or model would cost, but again I'm betting it won't be cheap.

Derwin could shop that now with the original files Ian provided.

[MVRacing]

Derwin,
The CAD files Ian provided in combination with the 360 3d should be all that is needed to shop for a diecast or plastic model from your contacts in China. Any thoughts of doing that?

[Derwin]

MVR....Well, don't we need a working prototype first? I know we could get some quotes for a diecast model, but I would really like to see a remote control model before going forward. How are you coming along with your project?

Derwin

[MVRacing]

As I see it, the RC and the Diecast or plastic display models are completely different projects. Probably not even the same scales ... I would think more about 1:14th scale resulting in about 10" overall length ... would fit nice on a shelf or desk top.

[MVRacing]

Finally got Ken to comit to pick up work on machining the front wheel and swing arm yesterday, so hope to have it running soon.

In the mean time Buzz and I have been working on CAD of the actual RC parts that we would need to make.

[Derwin]

As I see it, the RC and the Diecast or plastic display models are completely different projects. Probably not even the same scales ... I would think more about 1:14th scale resulting in about 10" overall length ... would fit nice on a shelf or desk top.


Yeah, your right about that. They are completely different projects. What files will I need to send the companies? Also, do you have any suggestions on what other specifications I should ask for? Like....should the diecast model be able to have various tilting positions? And, do we want it to have doors that open, and other little details like that?

Derwin

[MVRacing]

What files will I need to send the companies? Also, do you have any suggestions on what other specifications I should ask for? Like....should the diecast model be able to have various tilting positions? And, do we want it to have doors that open, and other little details like that? Derwin

As I recall from the thread, most folks wanted some type of ratchet or friction system so that it could be set at an angle and hold. From the color thread, seems the most popular color is silver.

As for other details - opening door and hatch would be nice, but we don't have any interior designs yet. Removable power pod cover would be nice, but again we have no designs for component layout yet. And I doubt Ian even has final yet. I would say we hold on the high end diecast at this point.

So, at this point perhaps we should just go for a cheaper plastic unit that tilts and rolls, has nice exterior details, but nothing opens.

[MVRacing]

As far as files, they should be able to get everything they need from the 360 3-d and the IGES CAD file .... do we need to check with Ian to clear the release of that to a manufacturer?

[Derwin]

.... do we need to check with Ian to clear the release of that to a manufacturer?

No. Ian has already given me approval to use them in the making of small models. I have the legal "green light" from Ian, so we don't have to worry about that.

Derwin

[MVRacing]

Derwin,
Can we/should we reopen this poll? I think it was only active for a month.

[Derwin]

Good idea! I just re-opened the poll for everybody to participate in it.



Derwin

[MVRacing]

Hi All,

Thought I'd post a photo of the completed RC Alpha while the battery is charging =y:

[cpaddock]

Dude! That is just freaking amazing! Where do you get all the time? If I didn't have this
darned career I'd whip out the body shell quicker than you could say "Curves Ahead!"
Alooooooooha!

[Derwin]

MVR....That is really great looking! I can't wait to see the video! Keep going...this is simply fantastic work!

Derwin

[RAN]

That's fantastic MV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Moorpark1]

Incredibly compact and well engineered! Ian might be looking you up after this.

[johnhead]

MVR,
Looks great.. Is the front suspension "non functional" for now? Looks like it's bolted to the frame? IF so..OK....Let's see it fly the driveway? Great work as usual... A Naked run around the street, on video, would be cool.. For the model I mean!
Regards
John

[MVRacing]

MVR,
Looks great.. Is the front suspension "non functional" for now? Looks like it's bolted to the frame? IF so..OK....Let's see it fly the driveway? Great work as usual... A Naked run around the street, on video, would be cool.. For the model I mean!
Regards
John

:LOL: Yaa, one streak video coming up LOL . Nobody would want to see that!!

Yes, the front arm is bolted ... kind of wore out my welcome for free work. Besides I was getting impatient. I'll incorporate your design in the Beta. =y:

[MVRacing]

Thanks all,
I'm having fun doing it, and couldn't have done it with out some great input and designs from this site and Ian's input.

[rogwild]

MVR, make sure after you post your 'youTube' video, you send Ian an email too, letting him know,....=y:
"We got our ALPHA running FIRST!"...:p:LOL:

Maybe we should 'low key' it, don't want to steal his JULY thunder.=n:

[TazmanianKoala]

MVR, that Alpha is looking quite OK.=y:
With a little imagination I can already see it rolling and rocking.
Keep up the good work. Like my grandfather used to say: "Take your time, then work will progress faster and better".

[danbucks]

Very nice indeed.

[Bulldog]

Fantastic work! Really COOL!

[MVRacing]

Hi All,
Ok, I've got some video of the RC Alpha ... but will have to redo it as the camera woman (wife) couldn't keep it in frame :LOL:

We'll do a reshoot and try to get it posted soonest.

[TazmanianKoala]

Hi MVR
I can't wait until I see the first Venture One really driving on the road!
Take your time.

[Derwin]

bm06zIh-V6Y


Well, folks, Here's the first video from MVR showing the Venture Vehicle R/C Alpha in operation. Please feel free to give us feedback. Thanks.

Derwin

[Derwin]

3M2AXe18MOQ


O.K., fella's....... Let's hear a round of applause for MVR!

Derwin

[danbucks]

Hey! Where's the cupholder?

[RAN]

That's amazing!
WTG MVR!

[waboom]

Fantastic engineering and fabrication work, MVR. I like the front end work (with slightly turning wheel) a lot.

Can you make me one 12x larger?:LOL:

[MVRacing]

Hey! Where's the cupholder?

Hi ya danbucks,

close as I can come :LOL:

Sorry waboom ... mine first =D

[Mike kZ]

WOW!! Fantastic job!!!! :)

[Derwin]

Now that's cool, MVR...... A remote-control car that can with a club logo coffee mug on it! I like it!

Derwin

[danbucks]

NOW we're talking!
Now, if only the real thing was just like that, but 12x larger (except for the straw).

[Miracleman89]

I thought the remote control car was going to come with a tilting cup holder! lmao

[MVRacing]

I thought the remote control car was going to come with a tilting cup holder! lmao

:) Whaat, that cup will tilt ... do I need to do another video !! :LOL:

[TazmanianKoala]

MVR,
I only just got to watch your videos and picture. I can only say one word: AWESOME.
Very good job! =y:
And concerning the tilting cup holder: You may leave that to the beta test vehicle.:Beer:

[Bulldog]

Sure is a small gas tank on that baby! Cool, VERY cool!

[johnhead]

On second thought...Hey MVR I thought for the sake of "Sales promotion" that it might be better to mount a Barbi on your RC version instead of GI Joe...What do you think ;-)

[Miracleman89]

I don't want Barbie messing with her make up when she should be driving! Keep Barbie away or she'll wreck it!

[MVRacing]

The RC Alpha is now in the hands of V BUZZ. He will be doing the CAD design for the Beta version, then will produce a Beta for testing.

[RAN]

The RC Alpha is now in the hands of V BUZZ. He will be doing the CAD design for the Beta version, then will produce a Beta for testing.

You guys are amazing! con:gra:ts1

[TazmanianKoala]

I'm still looking forward to the beta and when everything succeeds, to the production model.:)
I'm glad you guys do a fantastic job!

[johnhead]

Great work MVR... as always..
Head Hunter.

[Miracleman89]

Keep up the great work guys!!! I am always impressed by the amount of talent we have here at this forum!! Thank you!

[SafetyMan]

OH my. First time I've run this string and AM I EMPRESSED!!!!2thumb:up
Will the RC be out befor the V-1? Hope so. When ever it is ready to release, Derwin fire me a notification!!!
Being a newbie to the club, I am tickled pink with what is transpiring. KEEP up the chatter. Keep it Safe out there!

[RAN]

Welcome SafetyMan (said with Professional Radio Announcer Reverb on voice)!
At the rate things are going, the RC may even be out before the Alpha prototype :rolleyes:

[randi]

The RC Alpha is now in the hands of V BUZZ. He will be doing the CAD design for the Beta version, then will produce a Beta for testing.

Hello all,:wave:

I'm new to this discussion; are you all talking about this? I came across these while browsing YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0NrC5hLZJM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2AXe18MOQ

All I can say is ... "Pretty damn slick!"cool:thu:mb1

Love watching it go through the slalom pyle ons.dr:ive1)

Even without the skin, it's pretty amazing little thing.:burning:rubber:

I ... want ... one ... for X'Mas!

Please, no:wor:thy1I've been good

P.S. Anyone has a clue who DreamQuestBiz is? Not listed in the club's member list.

[Derwin]

P.S. Anyone has a clue who DreamQuestBiz is? Not listed in the club's member list.

Randi,

Those are great videos that you found...... they are part of *our* progress on the remote control vehicle. DreamQuestBiz is my account!

Anyway, I'm hoping we see more progress soon.

Derwin

[randi]

Randi,

Those are great videos that you found...... they are part of *our* progress on the remote control vehicle. DreamQuestBiz is my account!

Anyway, I'm hoping we see more progress soon.

Derwin


Aha! I thought it might have been member of the family--I was thinking a brother.

Great vids!!! Who put the alpha remote together, and who's controlling it in the vid?

(Sorry, I'm such a latecomer to this dance.)

[randi]

[quote=randi;10159 ... Great vids!!! Who put the alpha remote together, and who's controlling it in the vid?

(Sorry, I'm such a latecomer to this dance.)[/quote]


Disregard the above questions. I read part of the thread (back a few pages), and found my answer. For some reason [most likely me just messing updu:n:n:o(] I couldn't see it before.

I'm going to back and read the entire thread. Great read! And, I've got the whole weekend. OK, I confess, I'm a slooooow reader. :fish: