Different Doors?

[BreakfastMan]

I think that if they every made the sports version of the V1 it would be sweet if they made they made the door either a scissor or butterfly door. I think this would make the car look even more futueristick and it just looks really cool. :IDEA:
Here is an example of each door.
Scissor Doors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lamborghini_Murci%C3%A9lago_Concours.jpg)
Butterfly Doors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1996_McLaren_F1_open.jpg)

They are very similar except the butterfly doors open up and out slightly unlike the scissor doors.

[rogwild]

Doors have been discussed extensively on the FTR site and earlier on this one:
http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301&highlight=Raven+doors
--see post #7--
No "official" word from Vv on their current thinking. Probably have to wait until the 'BETA'.

[CelticFlyer]

I'm partial to the scissor door. =y:

[MarkH]

I want what ever will get it in my garage the fastest.

[Hardtime11]

I chose the regular door in the poll to keep it simple but do like the idea of the Butterfly door as a way to keep the door interior protected from rain and the elements when in the open position.

The scissor door would put the door in direct exposure from any angle. Being in Florida the elements do impose upon practicality of choices made. If there are any controls on the door interior the side (regular) opening somewhat and the scissor opening type would directly be exposed to moisture and such.

If you think about the Butterfly door could actually provide some reduction to water entering into the cockpit area. This is just my opinion but I like to think on the obvious/practical side of things.

[Baja_Traveler]

Other than the "Cool" factor, the reason I want a scissor door is to keep the opening radius of the door within the footprint of the vehicle. I will be parking it at home right next to my classic mustang in a small garage, so space is at a premium. No matter what, I will have a scissor door, whether it comes that way, or I have it modified.

[cpaddock]

I like the regular door. Less exposure to wind gusts when open. Perhaps easier to operate? No experience with the other types. Seems like they would stress the frame.
Should be able to enter/exit without the door opening much beyond the motor pod
width so tight spaces won't be a problem, especially if you park to the right in the stall.
Curves Ahead!

[MVRacing]

I'm all for the scissor door ... no additional cost or stress if it is designed into the original build.
IMHO it would add greatly to the uniqueness of the Vhatever.

[RAN]

If they can design in the scissor door for virtually no more cost or stress, why not? The V-1 is already different. Might as well take it to another level. The Aptera already has butterfly-like doors.

[rogwild]

If they can put this in the under $10,000 Raven; I'm sure Vv can figure it out for the V~1.

[Keldros]

I voted for the butterfly door, but I'd gladly take the scissor door as well. I like hardtime11's point of the butterfly door offering better coverage in foul weather conditions. Weather can get nasty here in TX, too, and I get tired of the inside of the door and half the seat and dash getting wet during gully-washer downpours.

[MVRacing]

I voted for the butterfly door, but I'd gladly take the scissor door as well. I like hardtime11's point of the butterfly door offering better coverage in foul weather conditions. Weather can get nasty here in TX, too, and I get tired of the inside of the door and half the seat and dash getting wet during gully-washer downpours.

Excellent point ... hadn't even thought of that ...duh.

[BreakfastMan]

I live in Long Beach just outside of Los Angles so the weather here is not bad at all :). It only rains a few days out of the year, so i never really though of how the different doors would play out in different weather. I am just gald that any kind of door will work for me and that when they launch the V1 i won't have to go to far to get one. =D

[VV_me_brah]

Butterfly doors would be nice when you think about trying to open/close an umbrella inside of your V. It would be interesting to watch though.

[nvrblu]

Regular door. I think it would be simpler, lighter, and cheaper.

Keep it simple. Keep the weight down.

[WarpedOne]

You forgot to include "TWO door" option.

I have a feeling most people are unaware of the fact that VV is going to have a single door only. It's gonna be a disappointing moment for many of them when they discover this.

Beauty is in symmetry, asymmetry is unattractive.

[BeepBeep]

I originally thought the scissor door would be a nice feature but I may need to retract my bid. Looking at the picture of the Raven and feeling the winds of late in our So. Utah area, I believe it would really put undo stress on the hinges. At times here (a lot) it would just about tip the vehicle over or rip the door off if the door was upright like in the picture. I now like the idea of maybe a door and a half regular style like on a club cab.

[cpaddock]

Warped One, I respectfully beg to differ. We in the West suffer from symetrical disease.
Perfect symmetry is our standard for facial beauty. However dynamic symmetry is the secret behind the beauty of Eastern art. Form is balanced with space. As for the V1, you can't see both sides at once anyway. Functionality can be thought of as beautiful,
however both are relative terms. I would hazard a guess that most motorcyclists mount their bike from the same side most of the time.
Curves Ahead!

[Baja_Traveler]

Most pilots enter their plane on the same side also!

[nvrblu]

It would certainly screw up aerodynamics, but what about removable doors?

[azskycop]

Regular door. I think it would be simpler, lighter, and cheaper.

Keep it simple. Keep the weight down.

+1-Remember the lighter it is the farther it will go on less. If it's the all electric would it be MPK.....Miles per Kilowat???

[cobraphx]

If scissor doors are all that great, why aren't they on more cars? It has to be because of compromises, can't think of many car companies that pass on better, cheaper, more practical ideas that will increase sales.

And it has to be said...

Lambo doors are so over done Lambos doesn't bother anymore!
http://www.rahulnair.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/doors.jpg

[smoove7410]

^^^The gallerdo never had scissor doors. The lp560, the new murci, still has scissor doors. I don't want them on the VV, personally, but really don't care too much as long as it looks good and performs well.

[RoyEP3]

My first post! And I'm gonna bump this thread.

Has anyone considered having a door like this??

http://www.johnmirandaphoto.com/airshow/_DSC0066.jpg

But I suppose that would not work with the current V1 design.

[Derwin]

My first post! And I'm gonna bump this thread.

Has anyone considered having a door like this??



But I suppose that would not work with the current V1 design.

Welcome to our little group! wel:l) and congratulations on your first post!

I like how you think, and I would be all for ANY kind of door that would be out of the norm. Hey, your idea would fit in GREAT with the "Fly The Road" theme. 2thumb:up

Again, welcome!

Derwin

[rogwild]

That kind of 'door' just might have some effect on the safety feature of the "Roll Cage", but it would look sharp. I'd buy it.

[ppi]

hey folks you do know there are already kits that offer scissor mode or reg door mode in one unit there is not much added weight at all.

[rogwild]

hey folks you do know there are already kits that offer scissor mode or reg door mode in one unit there is not much added weight at all.

Yes, but will they work on the V~1? We don't know. And there will be no need for them if that feature comes standard on the vehicle from the factory.
Do you have any 'links' to some example KITS?

[Derwin]

Rog, From all of the information that we have received so far from Venture Vehicles, I highly doubt that scissor doors will be a "standard" feature in the V1, if it would even be available at all from the factory.

Thanks, ppi, for the heads up on the doors. Like rogwild, I would like to see these kits. Heck, I may want to use them on a vehicle I have now!

Derwin

[ppi]

here is one there are many out there, vertical door offers custom and universal kits
http://www.yourhotcar.com/

[rogwild]

Rog, From all of the information that we have received so far from Venture Vehicles.......

Probably better to say; "From what 'little' information that we have recieved.... we still don't know, since they have not commented much on our suggestions for different 'door types', nor shown any model with an 'open door'.

[Derwin]

Rog, you and I, along with everybody else that have been following Venture Vehicles for the past 2 years or so, all know that scissor doors have NEVER been in the plans, or even remotely discussed by Ian or the company. All of the information, drawings, tentative specs, flash videos, etc. have had the "normal" swing-open door on this vehicle. Even the surveys that Venture Vehicle had authorized had these doors. I would THINK if Ian and the VV team had a scissor door in mind, we would have seen even a slight mention of the idea in one of the surveys, but we have not. This is what I was referring to.

We may not "know" all of the details about the vehicle at this moment in time, but we can make a pretty good educated guess based on what has transpired over the past couple years.

It's really not a big deal, rog, and I hope they DO install a scissor door on the thing (and that's how I voted!), or at least give us it as an option. But I highly doubt it.

Derwin

[rogwild]

everybody else ........ all know that scissor doors have NEVER been in the plans; Well I 'KNOW' of no such thing, you and I may have 'assumed' as much, but there has been no confirmation (visual or verbal) for Ian or Vv, that I can remember.
I agree that for 'convention' and 'economy' they will probably be STANDARD type doors. My point was that Vv nor Ian have discussed the door type (scissor, Lambo, gull-wing, standard, etc.) in any detail, nor have they published a photo or drawing that would indicate their direction (even in the surveys). If you can provide something to the contrary, please enlighten me. It has been a highly discussed topic (like the proposed vehicle name and company name change), but Vv has yet to provide any official indication of their plans or direction. The 'Door' on the foam mock-up could open any number of ways (if it were able to open). But if they had a picture of the 'door open', we might get a glimpse of the interior (another area that has been 'Silent' for the past 6 months).

[AZEqualizer]

IanBruce (http://www.flytheroad.com/)
Administrator (http://flytheroad.com/blog/forums/profile.php?id=128)

This is a tough one. Both US cars and motorcycles are approached from left. All I can say is we'll look at this issue carefully.
Remember, the VentureOne is a lot narrower than most vehicles. One of the most popular mid-sized is the Toyota Camry. At 72 inches, it's a good 2 and a half feet wider than ours. If you're parked at curbside, I can't foresee a situation where the door on the VentureOne would extend into the traffic flow. Likewise, occupying a slot in a parking lot still gives you plenty of elbow room.

As for things like gull-wing, or Lambo-style door openings, I'd prefer simplicity and familiarity for the time being. We're already different enough, and should probably stick to conventions that the marketplace understands and accepts.

Like Leela from Futurama, once you get past the "1-BDI" thing, it's pretty much smooth sailing.


This was posted by IanBruce back way back on 2007-03-03 11:53:32 and I hadn't read anything to read they were investigating any other kind of door other than the possibility of a staggered passenger door on the opposite side to the main door (though I think this got dropped for various reasons)

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=498&stc=1&d=1213575502

And I personally wouldn't want a door I would have to worry about hitting my garage door like the Lambo would. It is usually a gimmick for car shows but doesn't show up much in real life.

[rogwild]

AZE, I have to agree, sounds like he was initially thinking 'standard' and 'simple', way back when (before a lot of the 'door' discussions really began), and the diagram is nice, but does not 'confirm' any door opening method. That was also 1/2 year before the Raven demonstrated the 'scissor' door on their prototype, and the Aptera had theirs. I guess we will 'see' someday; the ALPHA prototype may not even have operating doors when (IF) it is finally 'unveiled'. (Is it July yet?)

[Derwin]

Thanks AZE, for the post. This is one of Ian's remarks that I recalled, but couldn't really remember it exactly. The main point was that the discussion of exotic doors was frivolous since Ian already indicated that they really were not considering them. As he said, this vehicle is different enough without adding a gimmick door.

Boy, you are one heck of a researcher, AZE! I wish I had a FRACTION of the talent you have in regards to digging this stuff up. Thanks! 2thumb:up

Derwin

[tugboatwilly]

And what happened to the Idea about somebody in Detroit Ninja sneak photo's? A far as they were with panel building they must be driving something.

[Derwin]

And what happened to the Idea about somebody in Detroit Ninja sneak photo's? A far as they were with panel building they must be driving something.

I'm all for it, and would even do it myself, but Detroit is a long drive from Chicago! Seriously, though, I asked Ian to give us a little PEEK into what is going on, and he has yet to respond. The last time I heard from him, he told me that WHEN it is time to release information, he would send it to this club FIRST. So at least that is exciting. But the big question is WHEN, and I certainly don't have the answer. du:n:n:o(

Derwin

[westonlgray]

Actually, the "ninja photo comment" makes me kind of nervous. With all of the car photographers sneaking around up there "Detroit," I would think that if anything like the V1 was out and about that they would find a way to get at least a couple of pictures... can you disguise a 3 wheel tilting car so that it won't be recognized by all of us in a photo?

[abrandin]

The small foot print of the scissor door is good, it would make getting in and out so much easier in the garage. And in parking lots, no matter how small the car is someone will still manage to park within eight inches of you. As far as wind goes, a traditional car door gets caught in the wind all the time and either slams me into the car or swings open and slams the car beside me.

[AZEqualizer]

Don't forget about the oops factor with low ceilings or your garage door and lambo doors.....I can see it now someone plants it into the garage door then hits the garage remote causing it to come down while exiting the vehicle and hits them in the head. Nice story to tell the insurance company.:confused:

[abrandin]

low garage ceilings can definitely be a problem. But any one who parks their car half way in the garage is asking for trouble no matter what the configuration of the car door is.

[abrandin]

AZEqualizer,
I miss understood about the garage door, I got it now.

[rogwild]

Well, since Ian is 'out of the picture', perhaps PM will listen to the potential buyers, and consider a 'non-standard' door. Current member poll is currently 2-1 (33-15) AGAINST a standard type door for the Persu Hybrid. Might as well have a door on the ULV that fits 'Urban Living'.

[Jack Willard]

My first post! And I'm gonna bump this thread.

Has anyone considered having a door like this??

http://www.johnmirandaphoto.com/airshow/_DSC0066.jpg

But I suppose that would not work with the current V1 design.

I voted for the butterfly doors, for the weather protection feature and grand looks. But I must agree that given the choice, I'd pick the jet aircraft pop-top canopy in a second! THAT would be PERFECT for FLYING the road!

[AZEqualizer]

I'll go with standard doors ... cheaper cost, less parts and no chance of turning the vehicle into a bathtub. =y:

[rogwild]

I'll go with standard doors ... cheaper cost, less parts and no chance of turning the vehicle into a bathtub. =y:

AZE, I'm not so sure that 'cost' would be that much different, since I doubt that the PH would be able to use any existing hinges, handles or locks off a production vehicle. Whatever they come up with, will have to be designed, engineered, and manufactured. If fact there may be 'fewer' parts, if the scissor or butterfly door can use 'one' hinge instead of two.

Something for the engineers to figure out (after they make the PH....GO), .... and for us to discuss. The 'bathtub' is not a problem with any of the designs discussed.

[AZEqualizer]

Most doors that go in an Up direction use a hydraulic strut(s) and they are not cheap even little ones... I know I just had to replace two on the hatch in my wifes car, and I didn't get them from a dealership which would have made the price even higher.

And if you have a top that opens like a cockpit it can certainly turn a vehicle in the downpour into a bathtub.

[Gunner]

I think I'd rather have suicide doors, they are easier to get in and out of.
=y:

[rogwild]

And if you have a top that opens like a cockpit it can certainly turn a vehicle in the downpour into a bathtub.

Very true, but that is not one of the options in the poll. A 'convertible' with the top down, would also do the same thing, but that is not part of this thread.

Hydraulic strut(s) could be a factor, but I did not notice any in the Raven scissor door, when they were showing construction photos on their website. Again, they were planning to use it on an inexpensive commuter vehicle, so the cost could not have been that much.

[cobraphx]

Going for a complicated door is a bad move on a new vehicle IMO. There is no way a scissor door or butterfly door can be simpler than a standard door. Not physically possible unless in zero g orbit. The weight of the door has to be counterbalanced in either of those designs, not so for a traditional door. Since the door would be more complicated, and heavier, it will be more prone to needing repairs and/or adjustments. Not a good thing on the first vehicle from a new company that wants to take the design mainstream.

Here's another example of a much better door design that likely won't make it into production. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAtkoje4-eM I'd go so far as to say this general design is much better than Gull Wing, Scissor, Butterfly and traditional designs. Well except for cost, complexity and design compromises.

AAtkoje4-eM,

[AZEqualizer]

Don't think there is enough vehicle in a PH for this to go under and I don't know how good the concept in a normal vehicle is since the door in the video was all computer generated from what I have read. A out of the box idea but I agree the cost and complexity make it a high $ item up front and in the long term.

[willk]

I don't see how a scissor door would be more exposed to the elements than a regular door.

[rogwild]

I don't see how a scissor door would be more exposed to the elements than a regular door.

If designed correctly; It wouldn't!

[rogwild]

Don't think there is enough vehicle in a PH for this to go under and I don't know how good the concept in a normal vehicle is since the door in the video was all computer generated from what I have read. A out of the box idea but I agree the cost and complexity make it a high $ item up front and in the long term.

On the 'Dagne Forum' they also mentioned this type door (designer is 'local'); but for the same reasons as AZE listed, I don't see it happening. They, RM, said they are still considering different types and locations of 'door/doors'.

I hope PM will 'enlighten' us on their current 'door' thinking, in their next 'Update'.

[Cocolicius]

The easiest to implement is what I would vote for. Object is to get the vehicle out the door. The 2nd gen. is what would be available for tinkering. Having said that, scissor doors are pretty applicable.

I would think that conventional swing doors are easier to design for, find parts for, and would appeal to most casual buyers.

[rogwild]

Looks like the ZAP Alias is using a cross between the 'standard' door and 'scissor' type door; opening OUT and slightly UP.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/zap-alias-in-red/1312905/
(third photo)
Should help the 'hitting the curb' problem.

[rogwild]

They call them
"Lambo-style" doors.
http://www.hotstocked.com/news/zap-ZAAP-15200632.html
The New Orleans 'show' is over today, and still no 'reviews', perhaps not news worthy?

[Lykle]

Hi all,

OK let me ump in here with both feet. First post and a picture too!
I developed a new way to open a door. It uses two levers and it allows the door to be opened normally, but only just enough to get out, or all the way. It then moves back and up, so that it is totally out of the way when you want to get in. Uses less horizontal and vertical space.

Let's see if I can insert the picture here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63831668@N00/443

Please let me know what you guys think?
Lykle

[willk]

It's not likely to happen as they are probably patented but dihedral synchro-helix doors would look great. They are used on koenigseggs

here is a brief clip of them opening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip8ypD4zWg4&feature=related
1186