Pininfarina Electric Car

[Baja_Traveler]

Italy's Pininfarina is planning to import to the United States an electric car that will supposedly go 155 miles on a charge, and cost around $23,000 dollars according to the Motortrend site.

Here (http://www.pininfarina.it/repository/Modelli/auto%20elettrica/049Accordo_21-12-2007.eng.pdf) is the Press Release.

[Mike kZ]

According to this article : http://www.hybridcars.com/news2/pininfarina-designs-electric-car-future.html there are 2 cars in the works, the family car pictured, and a yet unnamed car for a lot more money.

[Baja_Traveler]

Shoot - thats the first picture I've seen. Looks like the French were in charge of the styling...

I was picturing something more like a modern pantera that was electric.

[RAN]

The car in that picture was the car they designed for Miles... decidedly a "dressed down" design. I'm looking for better things from the car Pininfarina designs for themselves. ;-)

[RAN]

From AutoblogGreen: (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/10/03/paris-2008-pininfarina-and-bollore-debut-the-b0-b-zero-produc/)

Here it is!

Paris 2008: Pininfarina and Bolloré debut the B0 (B Zero) production electric car

Posted Oct 3rd 2008 at 2:02PM by Domenick Yoney (http://www.autobloggreen.com/bloggers/domenick-yoney/)

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/10/pininfarina--bollore-b0.jpg (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/pininfarina-b0-2/1074848/)

Pininfarina B0 (B Zero)

While we've known for some time (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/21/new-ev-coming-from-bollore-pininfarina-partnership/) that an electric car would be forthcoming from the partnership between the fabled firm of Pininfarina and the French industrial giant Bolloré, the two companies have avoided any embarrassing premature publication of photos (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/09/08/production-chevy-volt-photos-leak-out/) until the predetermined moment at the Paris Motor Show. Any speculation that the final product resulting from the French-Italian marriage might be beautiful but impractical (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/03/12/more-pictures-and-videos-of-pininfarina-sintesi-at-2008-the-gene/) or just plain French (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/17/an-electric-car-from-france-using-lithium-batteries-le-bluecar/) ugly can now be put to rest. When this sophisticated four-seater, four-door hatchback rolled out of the factory in Turin we can imagine dark clouds parting and a spotlight of sunshine beaming down to illuminate the B0 (pronounced "B Zero") with a voice, not unlike that of Homer (the donut-eating yellow guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_Simpson), not the Greek poet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer)), intoning thunderously with lots of reverb, "Sweeeet."

And sweet it is! After thousands of miles of testing with the BlueCar (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/17/an-electric-car-from-france-using-lithium-batteries-le-bluecar/) platform, the companies have refined that technology in this new design and hit all of their performance benchmarks including a 153-mile range and a top governed speed of 80 Mph. Although the advanced solar panels built into the roof and hood are quick to catch the eye with their high tech appearance, the real secret weapon in this city car is the lithium polymer "LMP" battery matched up with a supercapacitor. The elegant energy storage component not only allows for excellent regenerative braking and acceleration capabilities but also extends the life of the battery. It is stressed that the B0 is not a concept car or a prototype but an actual production model that will be built in Turin by the end of 2009. The Pininfarina-branded B0 is dedicated to the memory of Andrea Pininfarina (http://www.pininfarina.com/index/storiaModelli/biografie/Andrea-Pininfarina.html) who was a big believer in this project.

Gallery: Pininfarina B0 (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/pininfarina-b0-2/)

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/10/pininfarina-b0-12_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/pininfarina-b0-2/1074848/)http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/10/pininfarina-b0-11_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/pininfarina-b0-2/1074847/)http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/10/pininfarina-b0-10_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/pininfarina-b0-2/1074846/)http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/10/pininfarina-b0-9_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/pininfarina-b0-2/1074845/)http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/10/pininfarina-b0-8_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/pininfarina-b0-2/1074844/)

Quite an achievement! Still waiting to hear about the projected price.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Really kind of cute. Kind of looks like the discontinued Smart ForFour.

[Hardtime11]

Italy's Pininfarina is planning to import to the United States an electric car that will supposedly go 155 miles on a charge, and cost around $23,000 dollars according to the Motortrend site.

Here (http://www.pininfarina.it/repository/Modelli/auto%20elettrica/049Accordo_21-12-2007.eng.pdf) is the Press Release.

If they make that for around $23,000 I do not think they will be able to keep up with the demand. I know I like the looks of it. I even like the center mounted instruments in this one. I guess I will have to put a parking pad in my back yard as my driveway is totally shaded. But that is ok if I can stay away from the pumps for awhile.cool:thu:mb1 :-)

[westonlgray]

How many people would really buy an all electric car for $23k? Unless you want to rent a car everytime you take a long trip or own another car for that purpose, it seems like it would take a long time to make the car pay off. Then, if the battery costs even as little as $5000 (it is probably more), it will need to be replaced every 10 years? What if the electricity goes out where you live? The idea of an electric only car seems really nice, but the math just doesn't seem to work with the current battery prices and life.

If your main purpose is to reduce polution, then you would probably put less polution in the air by buying a 5 year old Honda Civic (or similar) and driving it for 10 years. The electric car may put less polution in the air than the civic after you have it, but there is a lot more polution released to build a new electric car (and all the materials) than in using a product that already exists.

I guess that is why I am solidly in the hybrid camp, but only if it can run on electric only. Otherwise, it seems like the hybrid would have minimal gain with a lot of potential costs/problems down the line. I would rather get a smaller more efficient ICE if the hybrid can't run electric only.

[Hardtime11]

Even though Pinifarina had a Standstill (http://www.pininfarina.com/index/press/cosCorp.html?index.php&p=581) bill for the months of August-September to get the Financial Structure squared away. I think that the death of Andrea Pininfarina (http://www.pininfarina.com/index/press/cosCorp.html?index.php&p=583), Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Pininfarina SpA did not help either. However, they are going forward (http://www.pininfarina.com/index/press/cosCorp.html?index.php&p=584).
The industrial plan for the electric car developed by a joint venture with the Bolloré Group is also progressing in the manner and with the timing originally anticipated (http://www.pininfarina.com/index/press/cosCorp.html?index.php&p=587).

And with a proposed full run in 2010 they could put a hurt of some manufacturers.

[RAN]

How many people would really buy an all electric car for $23k? Unless you want to rent a car everytime you take a long trip or own another car for that purpose, it seems like it would take a long time to make the car pay off. Then, if the battery costs even as little as $5000 (it is probably more), it will need to be replaced every 10 years? What if the electricity goes out where you live? The idea of an electric only car seems really nice, but the math just doesn't seem to work with the current battery prices and life.

weston, I guess it depends on your real life driving situation. This car can go around 150 miles in the city on a charge (and, I would think, about half that on the highway). That will work for many people probably 50 weeks out of the year. For some, it will work all the time.

The argument about having a long distance car around for the 1-2 weeks a year you might need it is the same as keeping a big van or truck around because you need to haul things once or twice a year. You can sell your dino-powered vehicle and rent one when you need it.

If they can really deliver this for around $23,000, that's going to be fantastic!

[ziggy951]

For $23,000 I would buy 2 of them. I have the use of a Truck if I need one so if I bought this vehicle I would be able to convert my current ride (32mpg) to the weekend warrior I have always wanted. If the battery costs $5k and has to be replaced every 7-10 years then so what. By then you can scrap the car and buy a far better electric by then. Or better yet, use the battery as a backup/storage system for your house(I would at least) and buy a new and probably more advanced one. 10 years down the road is a LONG time for innovation.

As for the 150 mile range, that realistically covers most of the US population. Probably 99.5% of US drivers if they have the ability to recharge at work. For weekend trips to the mountains for a camping trip? Who the hell would take that thing camping? For towing a boat to the lake for a Saturday? Duh, it obviously wont work there either. The issue is covering the main commuting needs of the US population. That is where our ridiculous fuel consumption comes from because we dont have, in most areas, reliable and affordable mass transit. Other vehicles will need to take up the slack for shipping and other businesses that require oil based fuels but for every day commuting and running errands this thing would definitely fit, and probably exceed, the need for most US households.




Z

[Baja_Traveler]

Using the old battery for house use is a brilliant idea! It was asked earlier what if the power goes off in your house - it never does at my house. I've got 3 kilowatts of solar on the roof backed up by 8 golfcart batteries at the moment. During power outages I'm covered 10-12 hours not using high wattage stuff - longer if the sun is shining. A high voltage pack would last me days of darkness. I'd have to change out my charge controller to handle the higher voltage (probably 144 volts) and use a step down to get the used car battery pack back down to 24 or 48 volts that the inverter can handle going back - but it would be a great addition to the house!

I like it - I could see myself driving one of these every day back & forth to work. The addition of the solar panels is really cool - won't be enough to fully charge the batteries, but at least its helping while the car sits in the parking lot 9 hours every day.

Yet another reason VV has to get on the ball - In a few years there is going to be so many cool vehicles to choose from that the first to market is going to get the lions share of sales.

[westonlgray]

Ok, I like the idea of having a battery backup for the house, but if the battery in the car goes bad at least every 10 years, how are you going to use a bad battery to power your house?

Don't get me wrong, electric is definitely the way to go, and maybe in a few to 10 years they will have batteries that can be recharged fast enough that everyone will only have an electric vehicle, except for some farm equipment and trucks.

I am just a bit wary of having a battery that costs $10,000 and may only last 5 years. I have never had a laptop battery that has made it more than about 5 years, and I take very good care of them... Just tossing around ideas.

[ziggy951]

The battery doesnt go bad. It losses its ability to produce/store enough energy to propel a 3000+ lb vehicle down the highway for any amount of time. The battery is fully capable of acting as a house, or small business, battery backup system for quite a while after that. I have heard estimates of up to another 10 years. These are estimates at best though as I dont think that kind of real world testing has been possible just yet.




Z

[westonlgray]

Are the battery manufacturers the ones making those estimates? They could be true, but just based on the experiences I have had with all types of smaller rechargeable batteries, they last about 2-5 years, and when they start to go bad, they almost completely go relatively quickly.

Speaking of batteries though, maybe we should start a thread for new battery technologies. I haven't heard anything about bettery tech for a while now, and there have to be tons of people working on it.

[ziggy951]

The estimates I got were from an article in Business 2.0, a now dead magazine, that had a few companies that were actually using them. They would charge them overnight, at lower rates, then use that energy during peak hours and keep some of them for emergency backup applications for servers and such. Apparently they had pretty high expectations and had actually put them in place, so this wasnt just theory. I talked to an electrical engineering prof. also and he said it had merit, given the battery wasnt damaged. He said that the average battery for a hybrid application would probably have a 10 year use, like the one mentioned above, if the battery had been used in a vehicle for 5 years or so and had never been physically damaged and had a standard amount and use of the charge/discharge cycle. This lead me to believe in the viability. Lithium Ion batteries however, probably wont last much longer than 5 years. My personal education is a bit light on these but from what I know they dont last much longer than 3-5 years regardless and if they lose charge completely they are basically junk. Somone correct me if that is incorrect.

If you take the above statements at face value then 5-10 years use of a basically free item, that would be thrown away otherwise, is a pretty good deal. Assuming the costs associated with setting up and/or buying the system, maintaining it, and disposal of it when its done make economic sense.




Z

[Hardtime11]

I believe that is partly why they do not let the batteries get to a full discharge state or even a fully charged state. They are also keeping the batteries cool in this method and prolonging the life cycle of them through this technique.

It is like a cordless drill. If you drain it 100% each time (you know to where the battery gets hot) and then quick charge it (again to where it gets hot) you are pushing the battery to it's limits. Therefore it should come to no surprise when that battery only lasts you one year of use. I typically just but a new tool then as to buy the battery replacements is not as economical as buying a new power tool on sale. :mad:science:

[RAN]

I think that generally, you want to keep the EV batteries between a 20%-80% SOC (state of charge) to maximize their life. So, don't discharge them below 20%, or charge them above 80%. It should be possible to program the battery management system to stay within these limits.

This is something you want to be aware of when manufacturers start touting EV range; are they basing it on 0%-100% SOC? If so, that's not an accurate (or honest) reflection of what your real range will be.

A new acronym for EVs: YRMV* dr:ive1)

*Your Range May Vary

[Baja_Traveler]

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm

Here's an interesting article on how the Prius batteries have been holding up these past 8 years. May put to rest at least some of the concerns.

[rogwild]

I just met a guy this weekend that still has one of the FIRST Prius', and he said he had to replace his entire battery pack ($3,000) when ONE of the 19 or 20 cells went bad. He said that newer models can replace individual elements.

[Baja_Traveler]

Man - thats crazy. And a good thing to know before an EV purchase. Why spend $3K when a few hundred will get the job done - especially for those of us who are "do it yourselfer's" it would be nice to know if the battery pack is not a factory sealed unit.