V1 not a Legal Vehicle in Ohio!

[PHEVadvocate]

Title and registration of the Venture One would not be allowed in Ohio, because of the shape of the seats! =n:
I think the biggest threat to the Venture One is the Bureaucracy in our own governments! Their goal, stifle innovation, maintain the status quo, and protect their special interests. It doesn’t help that the EPA and the Department of Transportation are under the control of nonfriendly factions too.
I can just see some stupid law killing the Venture One or keeping it off the road for years.:eek:

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/post_12.html (http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/post_12.html)

Anybody got a idea as to how we can fight this type of BS?

[rogwild]

Sure, and the publicity and visibility of the up coming Automotive X-prize will be a great help.
1. First check the regs in your state, or the DMV and see what problems will occur with registering a vehicle like the V~1.
2. Make a list of the governing statutes that affect it, need to be changed, etc.
3. Make a list of the people responsible for changing these statutes; governor, committee heads, legislatures, etc.
4. Make some proposed changes that would allow V~1 type vehicles (showing an appropriate level of safety) to operate safely on the roads of your state.
5. Next send the information to the AXP people and inform them that their 'cross-country' auto event may be 'banned' from your state due to current laws.
6. Inform your state representatives that they may loose significant revenue if the AXP is not allowed into their state, and adverse National Publicity would surely follow.
7. Start petitions (several internet sites that can do this) and post the information to different 'Green and automotive forums' on the net with an invitation to 'sign-up' to bring your state into the 21st Century.

May not work, but could keep the legislators busy reading emails/petitions long enough so that they can't SCREW YOU with other bogus rules!

[CelticFlyer]

Rogwild's got a great action plan. I'd do as he says, especially if this legislation negatively impacts your ability to purchase and/or operate a vehicle like the V1!

Sometimes, all it takes is one person of sound mind and judgement to step up and propose a common-sense solution to a set of unfavorable circumstances.

[Timon]

I think that I would tell the BMV to stick it and drive it anyway.

I can just see going to the judge several time with the media present. The more they have you go to court the more bad press they get.

Then that's me, I tend to not stand for BS like this=D

[RAN]

I hear ya Timon! Any lawmaker who can't figure out a solution to this puzzle deserves to eat dog food for a year, minimum.

[Baja_Traveler]

OK - now along with Maine, I can scratch Ohio off my places to live list...

[meckman1]

I've worked as a political activist for labor for several years now. I think the first thing to do would be to start a petition here in Ohio. Kaptur is usually pretty responsive if you can prove to her that enough people in her area think that this is important.

[azskycop]

Anybody got a idea as to how we can fight this type of BS?[/quote]

Just register it in the closest state that is legal and drive it anywhere you want. Even Ohio has to accept cars from other states.

[beeson]

What is with the states in the middle??? Kansas bans the teaching of evolution/requires the teaching of "intelligent design". And now we find Ohio says this isn't a vehicle because it doesn't have the right number of wheels or shape of seat. So just what is this thing Ohio? A paper weight??

Wasn't it another middle state that once tried (or succeeded) in pass a law making pi an even 3?

OK, rant over. Every state has some really weird laws on the books.

[RAN]

beeson, they don't call it "fly-over country" fer nuttin ;)

[Derwin]

Hey.........I take exception to that! If it weren't for towns like mine (Chicago), you wouldn't have such great characters like Al Capone. So we are good for some things! =D

Derwin

[RAN]

Fear not Derwin. Chicago is a rule of it's own ;)

[victrolakid]

so now after reading the article that was posted, I have a question. If the ventuire is going to be registered as a motorcycle, am I going to need to get a motorcycle license to drive it, and I am going to need to wear a helmet while I am inside of the vehicle? I am not to familiar with the California law so if somone could answer these questions that would be great. Also on an unrelated topic I have noticed the accronym ICE alot used around the forum, what is ICE.

[JoeU]

There are articles and links about rules and regulations on the V1 being classified as a motorcycle in this forum and at flytheroad.com covering most of teh U.S. Use search function in this forum and check out "no search engine" in the other site. :mad:
ICE stands for Internal Combustion Engine or standard automotive engine.=y:

[victrolakid]

Thanks for the info, that makes the articles make alot more sense.:)

[Miracleman89]

Let them know what you think!

Ohio Governor contact page:
http://www.governor.ohio.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=448

Ohio Secretary of State contact page:
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/ContactUs.aspx?Code=default

Ohio State Senate Committee for Highway and public transportation E-Mail addresses:
SD01@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
sd10@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
kcoughli@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
sd20@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
SD31@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
SD29@mailr.sen.state.oh.us
SD23@maild.sen.state.oh.us
senatorcafaro@maild.sen.state.oh.us
senatorwilson@maild.sen.state.oh.us

[Miracleman89]

Just for the record I sent and email to the senate committee members and have received to messages back already!

Here is the message I sent to them:

To whom this may concern,
I am writing this letter to inform you of a grave oversite in your state's transportation laws. It has been brought to my attention that the State of Ohio has a law in effect that prevents certain alternative fuel vehicles to be licensed and operated in your state. Apparently, three wheeled vehicles that would ordinarily fall into a category of motorcycles, are not classified as motorcycles in your state due to the fact that they do not have saddle seats. Times have changed in the automotive world and it is time for your committee to take action to resolve this problem! There are many vehicles today under development right here in the USA that offer great alternatives to gas guzzlers. Some of these wonderful vehicles will offer 100 mpg ranges, yet due to this law they will not be allowed to operate in your State. Now, I do not believe that Ohio wishes to continue our dependency on foreign oil nor hinder the progress of alternative energy uses., therefore, I believe that it is the responsibility of your committee to take the necessary and appropriate actions to solve this oversite as quickly as possible!

For references to vehicles that I am referring to I have added links to homepages of some of these wonderful vehicles!
http://flytheroad.com/
http://www.aptera.com/
http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/
http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars/xebra-sedan
http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars/xebra-truck

Please note that the last two are already in production and are being shipped to buyers right now. As a matter of fact one individual in your state purchased one of them and had to return his plate and is now trying to sell his vehicle, due to the law I have mentioned above. It is because of his story I have chosen to write to you and ask that you do something about this problem!

We are all responsible for the impact we make on our environment! You need to change this law ASAP to help usher in a new era of energy independence and environmentally conscious transportation!

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter.
Sincerely,
Brian Fields



So far here are the 2 responses I have received and it hasn't even been 24 hours:

Dear Mr. Fields,

Thanks for your email. I'll put this issue on my radar screen and would seriously consider supporting corrective legislation.

Sincerely,
Dale Miller,
State Senator



Thank you for your email. I appreciate your contacting my office. Helping my constituents is a top priority in my office.

We are researching your issue now and will get you an answer as soon as possible. Because we receive a large volume of U.S. mail and email, and if we need to wait for information from a state agency, we will get you a final answer as soon as we can.

So that we can address your issue more quickly, please be sure you have supplied us with your full name, telephone number, mailing address and the specific action you request.

Thank you again for emailing.

Sincerely,

Tim Schaffer
State Senator, 31st District (Licking, Fairfield, Perry, Hocking & Eastern Pickaway Counties)
Ohio Senate, Room 142
Columbus, OH 43215

note this last one is probably an automatic response though!

[beeson]

Not only is it an obvious automated response. (not one word about the issue) They don't want to talk with you until you give your address. Bottom line, if you can't vote for me, I ain't talking to you.

[Mike kZ]

Great letter Brian! If any of our own states give us problems, we could use some of your letter, and info.

[Miracleman89]

Thanks Mike kz, I hope that I have helped in some way!

[balfour]

If we can't get the law amended in Ohio by the time the V1 comes out, I'll just have to move out of the state. Some things just take priority :-)

[rosesj]

Some of you guys are acting foolishly. Yes... this is a problem. Yes... it needs to be fixed. It was never an issue up until now. Technology has simply outstripped the current laws and conventions. We need to begin making changes in the law to incorporate 3 wheeled vehicles, probably best served as a separate category.

Acting as though the legislature should have taken this into account and changed it before it was ever an issue is ludicrous. It is as if we were to make arrangements NOW for flying cars, just so you wouldn't have to wait.

The state, and every state for that matter, had to develop standards to classify vehicles. These are the standards which were chosen at the time, and seem reasonable for the most part. ONLY after a new technology is brought to bear, do we see that the OLD definition is lacking and must be evaluated and reworked.

California currently does NOT allow the V1 or type cars in the HOV lane. Is that a failing of California? To pretend that it is simply an uneducated part of the country not worth mentioning only goes to show just how ludicrous your overall position and elitist attitude is to so much of the US. That fly over country could stand alone far and away longer than the coasts could.

We as hopeful conscientious drivers should begin working now on the issue. Just as Miricleman has shown. But to expect someone in California or New York to be able to change the law in Ohio is the pinnacle of elitism. You have no clue what is best for the people in Ohio, nor should you have the right to press YOUR concerns on them. Bringing the oversight to their attention and providing that information is fantastic, and most people will readily accept it. But for you to state that they don't care if you don't vote for them is idiotic. I will tell you that given the reverse, I would bet there is more of the country population which disagrees with alot of the way California does its internal business. Allowing all that MIDDLE FLY OVER COUNTRY to change YOUR laws probably wouldn't set to well with you.

Texas, Indiana, Ohio, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, etc writing your congressman and telling them (and EXPECTING THEM) to relax your polution laws is akin to your expecting an Ohio Senator to change the Ohio law, because someone from San Francisco wants it that way.

Now, for the record, I am in general agreement. We need to change the laws, and they will be changed. I have no doubt about it. I was just sickened by so much of the attitude about the middle of the country by the fringes.

[rogwild]

First off, WELCOME to the club, 'rosesj'. Sorry your first impression was so 'negative'. I suggest you re-read the thread a bit later. I only found 3-4 (of the 20+ posts) to be negative toward OHIO (most in a 'light-hearted' way, ya got to know the players). Most were 'degrading' politicians (fair game) in general, and not a STATE in particular.

[meckman1]

First off, WELCOME to the club, 'rosesj'. Sorry your first impression was so 'negative'. I suggest you re-read the thread a bit later. I only found 3-4 (of the 20+ posts) to be negative toward OHIO (most in a 'light-hearted' way, ya got to know the players). Most were 'degrading' politicians (fair game) in general, and not a STATE in particular.

Actually. I also live in ohio and I found a few of the quotes to be unecessarily rude as well. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but we should be respectfull ntowards one another as well

[MVRacing]

Born in Ohio =y:

Here is a recent article about legislative changes in Ohio

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/06/10/update-three-wheelers-might-be-registerable-soon-in-ohio/

[bhicks]

Here's a news article from an Ohio news paper, Thought you might be interested. Sounds like good news.

COLUMBUS, Ohio (Map, News) - As the price of gas continues to rise, Ohio is preparing to welcome fuel-efficient, three-wheeled vehicles onto its roads.

The nascent movement to promote the small, cheap vehicles, long popular in China and India, has been stalled in Ohio - albeit unintentionally. Three-wheelers aren't allowed on the roads because they lack a specific designation: They don't classify as motorcycles because they lack a saddle, and they can't be termed automobiles because they don't satisfy federal safety regulations.

Gov. Ted Strickland is expected to sign a bill next week that enables three-wheeled vehicles that have seats to be classified as motorcycles. The new law will take effect in September.

Gas-powered versions of three-wheelers cost about $10,000 and get roughly 45 miles per gallon. Priced at approximately $35,000 each, the electric versions are more expensive and can run for about 30 miles on a single charge.

EXAMINER.COM RELATED ARTICLES
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Unlike motorcycles, the vehicles have an enclosed cockpit and can seat up to four people. Under the law, drivers will have to wear a helmet for the first year and pass a motorcycle skills test.

The electric version, which has a smaller range, is tailored to commuters, while the gas-powered version is more of an all-purpose vehicle.

Calls for a change to the law began with Richard Runyon, the owner of Dick's Suzuki in Leesburg for 31 years. Runyon ordered six three-wheeled vehicles from Trifun Inc., a Florida-based company that manufactures the vehicles in China.

Compared with a motorcycle or a car, the Trifun is a "super" deal, Runyon said. It can be driven year-round, has heating and air conditioning, and costs less than most cars and motorcycles.

"It's a savings that Ohio was going to get cheated out of," Runyon said.
Runyon told State Rep. David Daniels, a Republican from Greenfield, that the legislative glitch was blocking adoption of the vehicles.

Trifun recently began production of three-wheelers and hopes to sell 3,000 vehicles this year, said company President Tighe Estes.

"It finally started getting to a point when we were seeing gas at $2.50 that this started to make sense," Estes said. "Now that it's at $4, it really makes sense."

The company sells three versions of the three-wheeled vehicles for about $10,000 each. All three have a top speed of over 60 mph, get roughly 45 miles per gallon and carry about seven gallons of gas.

Trifun hopes to launch an electric version later this year.

An electric three-wheeled vehicle sold by Myers Motors in Tallmadge goes for about $35,000. It has a top speed of over 75 mph and takes about six to eight hours to be fully charged.

Backers of the vehicles are eyeing other parts of Ohio law they say need changing in order to make them more viable.

With the change, Ohio moves into line with most other states.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[waboom]

Fantastic - a sudden outbreak of common sense.
Lets hope any other holdout states suffer from that same outbreak!

[Miracleman89]

Well I certainly feel like I have done my part! I am so glad to see that they are fixing this problem!

For those of you who have applauded my efforts- ( bows graciously)

[PHEVadvocate]

Good news!

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080616/BUSINESS02/806160335

Sometimes you got to be a bit harsh, to get people moving. ;)

[RAN]

Good news!

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080616/BUSINESS02/806160335

Sometimes you got to be a bit harsh, to get people moving. ;)

Not only that, but according to that article, it looks like the ZAP Alias might be more than vaporware after all. :)

[waltbscott]

Might not be the gov't per se, but some indutry lobby trying to stifle competition. After all, who killed the electric car?

[RAN]

Uh yeah... look at who's trying to kill satellite radio...

[bdherb]

At least Florida seems safe. excerpt taken from The 2007 Florida Statutes title 23 chapter 316 (22) MOTORCYCLE.--Any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, but excluding a tractor or a moped.

....but you all already knew this right !! LOL good stuff

[waboom]

You can't register the Zap in Kentucky either - I can't find the specific law, so just guessing it will affect the Venture One as well. Zap, however, has a persuasive way of getting Kentucky legislators to change the law - flat-out say that there's no way they'll build a Zap factory that will employ 1,000 in a state where you can't register it!

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080709/ZONE10/807090877

[dhartman]

has to do with the Statutes defining classes of motor vehicles "which are self-propelled... not [to] include a moped" as follows:

motorcycle -- "means any motor driven vehicle having a seat or saddle...and designed to travel on not more than 3 wheels... but excluding [those] on which the operator and passengers ride in an enclosed cab..."

automobile -- "means any motor driven vehicle... designed to travel on not less than 4 wheels... in which the operator and passengers ride in an enclosed cab..."

so, right now, in Kentucky the VentureOne falls in the crack! It cannot be classified as a motorcycle since it has an enclosed cab and it cannot be classified as an automobile since it has less than 4 wheels. I guess the writers of law thought a 3 wheeled vehicle with an enclosed cabin would never fly! I could not resist that... and we will get this resolved in Kentucky before the VentureOne flies the road.

[mrvail]

In kentucky Gary Tapp (r) shelby co. and David Seum (r) jefferson co. were trying to get the governor to change that part of the law because of interest of the possiblity of
building Zap vehicles in bullitt co. however the governor's office has said that there is to
much to consider at this time and will let the general assembly in 2009 address this issue.
just like the politicians in ky, pass the issue to someone else. incase a problem occurrs
so they can point the finger and say not me!