ZENN Poised to Become THE EV Car Company?

[RAN]

I made an inquiry at ZENN motors about their projected availability of EEStor car conversion kits, since they will have worldwide rights to them. No answer yet. If EEStor's for real, ZENN is going to become a Big Name in the EV world. In addition to exclusive rights to market EEStor car conversion kits, they also have exclusive rights to produce EV's up to 3080 lbs!

Cazart!

Actually, this could end up being counter-productive, as I can see a proliferation of new EV's that weigh 3090 lbs and up, as major manufacturers seek to side-step paying ZENN licensing fees.

"What are your thoughts, Hobson?" =D

[Derwin]

RAN,

Do you know when they will make these kits available? I have a small 2-door Chevy Tracker convertible that I would like to "convert" into being a hybrid. Is this possible? If so, how do I go about doing it? And, what are the costs involved?

Derwin

[RAN]

As i said, I have an inquiry in to find out when they might be available. ZENN has plans to start selling their City Car equipped with EEStor in the fall of 2009. I would imagine conversion kits would follow later, although I'm hoping they might start getting them out sooner, since there's a lot less involved in bringing them to market (well, considering how many different cars there are, maybe not...)

I've only seen one actual hybrid conversion (most are EV only). I don't think I saved the url on it, but it was a Mazda Miata. By the time they dropped the ICE into the trunk, that Galaxy scooter could carry more cargo.

Generally speaking, if you're doing a EV conversion based strictly on ROI, you're going to be disappointed, unless you drive 100 miles/day and gas goes to $5, 7 or 10/gal. Doing a hybrid conversion just multiplies the complexity and cost.

That's why the EEStore solution is so ground-breaking, if it's for real. Imagine an EV that can go 200-300 miles (or more) on a charge, can re-charge in 10 minutes or so, whose power cells will last the life of the vehicle, cost less than current lithium-ion batteries, AND weigh so little that there won't be any weight penalty for the conversion?

[Derwin]

RAN, are you kidding me? They have battery technology that will get a vehicle 200 to 300 miles per charge, and it only takes 10 minutes to fully charge it? If this were really true, it would REVOLUTIONIZE the world.

I am a little suspicious about this, to tell you the truth. But if it's true, what are we waiting for? When will they have it on the market? And, how much will it cost?

Derwin

[JoeU]

Derwin,

That is Ultra caps not batteries. Caps can be charged at a much higher rate.

[RAN]

Actually, they are sort of combining batteries and ultracaps into one product that has the best features of both. Batteries can store much more energy, but they can't accept or release it as fast, they weigh too much, they have a much more limited cycle life (the # of times they can be charged/discharged) and they can't operate in quite the temperature extremes that ultracaps can. Ultracaps are good at everything that batteries are not, but they can't store nearly as much energy for as long as batteries can.

[EVcast]

This is one of those companies that can potentially change the world -- if the EEstor technology succeeds. CEO Ian Clifford is still expecting a working ultra capacitor to be delivered to ZENN by 2008. For the complete interview with the CEO, see http://www.evcast.com/members/evcast/blog/VIEW/00000001/00000009/EVcast-4-Interview-with-ZENN-Motors-CEO-Ian-Clifford.html#00000009

[CelticFlyer]

Will the "conversion kits" you're describing enable any car to go faster than the 25 mph limit Zenn's City Car has? I'm new to Zenn, but I have reservations about getting a car with a 25 mph limit. Their online brochure asks "are you in the zone?" The "zone" is a specific area which encompasses all of your possible destinations, and it's understood that the speed limit is 25 mph within that given radius.

[jmzenn]

The conversion kits will follow the City Zenn. Initially Zenn is targeting fleets more so than consumer vehicles. Each type of vehicle they target would have a model specific kit that could be purchased/installed. The power would be sized appropriately to the size of the vehicle. I got this info from Ian Clifford yesterday in yet another interview he provided. See more here (although the clifford interview is not posted yet).

http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com

[Derwin]

In your interview with Mr. Clifford, did you find out anymore details about WHEN these will be made available to the public at large?

Derwin

[azskycop]

Will the "conversion kits" you're describing enable any car to go faster than the 25 mph limit Zenn's City Car has? I'm new to Zenn, but I have reservations about getting a car with a 25 mph limit. Their online brochure asks "are you in the zone?" The "zone" is a specific area which encompasses all of your possible destinations, and it's understood that the speed limit is 25 mph within that given radius.

The way I understand it the 25mph is a limit on the cars they sell right now but the one coming out with the EEStor should be capable of a real speed like 80mph or more. Also the re-charge would require an in-home charging station that takes power all day long to get the 5-10 min re-charge to the car. I could be wrong as I have not researched it that much. Overall it sounds like a great idea/solution to getting electric cars on the road that people will be willing to accept.

The current ZENN car is little more than an enclosed golf-cart due to it's speed limitation. Yes it is a real car with A/C and radio, basically they import a car without a drive-train and put in a minimal electric setup. Don't think it would be real useful as an everyday driver for most people.

[RAN]

Will the "conversion kits" you're describing enable any car to go faster than the 25 mph limit Zenn's City Car has? I'm new to Zenn, but I have reservations about getting a car with a 25 mph limit. Their online brochure asks "are you in the zone?" The "zone" is a specific area which encompasses all of your possible destinations, and it's understood that the speed limit is 25 mph within that given radius.

The 25 mph limit is proscribed by governments, not any sort of limit of the car itself. I'm sure the ZENN is capable of 35-40 mph speed.

Yes, the conversion kits should allow the same kind of speeds that EVs are capable of now. Up til now, there has always been a trade-off between speed/acceleration and range, due mainly to the size and weight of current batteries. While there will still probably be tradeoffs even with EEStor, the limits will be much higher.

[RAN]

EVcast and jmzenn, welcome! I'm listening to the podcast now.

My main concern here is the timetable involved with getting cars and conversion kits out to individuals. ZENN is only one company, and not a real big one at that. Unless they license other companies to manufacture EVs and conversion kits, I see ZENN as a big bottleneck. I don't begrudge them a healthy ROI, and they're going to make a fortune whether they actually sell cars or not, and that's my point; jmzenn points out that they will start targeting fleets and not consumer cars, and that whatever cars they decide to target will have conversion kits available.

I want to convert a Porsche Boxster. The company I choose to do the conversion will already have all the parts; all they will need is the right number and voltage of EEStor units to meet the performance targets we decide on. If I have to wait until 2024 for ZENN to get around to making a Boxster "kit", this is not "goo for me".

I have no idea how EEStor plans to even begin to meet demand for their storage system. I understand that ZENN will probably get the total 1st year's output for their City ZENN cars, but I can't believe that all the world's major carmakers won't be able to produce EVs with EEstor systems, and I want my EV Boxster :-Þ

[RAN]

the re-charge would require an in-home charging station that takes power all day long to get the 5-10 min re-charge to the car.

People are looking at rapid recharge the wrong way; your car can probably go 130 mph, but you certainly don't drive it that fast all the time, if ever.

With a 220 volt charging station set up at home, you could charge an EEStor-equipped vehicle in about 2 hours. With a 120 volt system, it'd take more like 4 hours. With a car that has a 200+ mile range, all you have to do is plug it in at night (or every 2nd or 3rd night depending on how many miles you drive a day) and you're good to go.

The rapid recharge ability only really becomes crucial when taking your car on a road trip. Initially, gas stations along the interstates would have the higher amp chargers that allow recharging in 10 minutes or so.

[MVRacing]

Hey guys & gals,
In 2 different interviews with the CEO of ZENN, Ian Clifford I have read the deal between EEStore and ZENN is only for 4 wheel vehicles under 3080 lbs ... This leaves the door wide open for Ian and Vv to do a deal for super cap ZENN Drive power system.

Could it be???? :IDEA:

[Mark Tomlinson]

Hey guys & gals,
In 2 different interviews with the CEO of ZENN, Ian Clifford I have read the deal between EEStore and ZENN is only for 4 wheel vehicles under 3080 lbs ... This leaves the door wide open for Ian and Vv to do a deal for super cap ZENN Drive power system.
Could it be???? :IDEA:
Maybe, just maybe. Note that Ian Clifford also mentioned that EEStore approached them. It seems that EEStore is being very selective about who they get in bed with. I suspect they are looking only for companies who will successfully implement the technology, rather than some start up with a bad business model (like ZAP) or a corporation that will want controlling interest in the company (like GM).

But that assumes too much. Still, you have a point. ZENN only has controlling interest within their target marketplace, leaving EEStore open to pursue larger applications (with Lockheed Martin) and smaller applications with ... who knows?!