Fuel Cell Technology

[Derwin]

I thought I would start this new thread dedicated to Fuel Cell Technology. I found this nice informative video that really explains it in a way most anyone can understand.

Please add to this thread any and all information that you think may be interesting.


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[shooter]

As an aside, have you guys seen this?

http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/lifecar/lifecar.html

[AZEqualizer]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2007/12/efoy4er.jpg
Per unit volume, a fuel cell should be able to provide five times more energy than the lithium battery. ... However, and this defies common sense, one gallon of methanol has more accessible hydrogen than one gallon of liquid hydrogen. Thus, the logic argues for producing methanol from biomass to power a fuel cell, as hydrogen is very expensive to manufacture, store and deliver. This simplest of alcohols is the only biofuel capable of directly and efficiently being utilized by a fuel cell without passing through an expensive reformer. -Thomas Friedman

Yes, methanol has only half the energy value of gasoline, but the fuel cell has at least twice the efficiency of the internal combustion engine, so there is a wash, here, regarding onboard storage. And methanol is no more toxic than gasoline. You shouldn't drink either one.

But we have problem. The U.S. Department of Energy has prohibited providing funds for vehicular DMFCs, and furthermore, stopped supporting biomass to methanol R&D. It has mostly to do with ethanol and biodiesel being selected as the only national biofuels. Thus, we are probably a decade away, if not longer, from being able to convert to a biomethanol economy for transportation.

Thus, unless some sudden advancement can be realized in bringing a transport DMFC to the marketplace, it makes sense to cultivate options such as the plug-in electrical car system, hoping that electricity from the renewables can enjoy a quick commercial transition. In any event, watch out for the direct methanol fuel cell, for this virtually ignored opportunity could well either someday replace vehicles powered by batteries or in parallel maybe develop even faster.

This article was published on The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-takahashi/is-there-an-option-more-p_b_150824.html)by Patrick Takahashi (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-takahashi)

[Baja_Traveler]

But we have problem. The U.S. Department of Energy has prohibited providing funds for vehicular DMFCs, and furthermore, stopped supporting biomass to methanol R&D. It has mostly to do with ethanol and biodiesel being selected as the only national biofuels. Thus, we are probably a decade away, if not longer, from being able to convert to a biomethanol economy for transportation.

I would think that in less than a month we will have a new administration that will give the Energy Department a swift kick and change that policy...
Obama placed a Nobel Laureate in charge of the Dept of Energy last week.
From http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2008/12/15/obamas-green-team/

"Mr. Chu, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist who runs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, has been tapped to head the Department of Energy (http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2008/12/10/reports-obama-picks-energy-chief/), an agency charged with designing and producing nuclear weapons, disposing of radioactive waste, overseeing domestic energy production, and conducting energy-related research.
On that last front, Chu has spearheaded many clean energy initiatives at the Berkeley Lab, many of which have focused on using non-food plants to convert sunlight into liquid fuel. One of these initiatives, known as Helios (http://www.lbl.gov/msd/helios_site/index_helios.html), is expected to begin construction in 2010. Chu’s Nobel Prize came in 1997 for his contributions to “laser cooling,” a method of trapping gaseous atoms with laser light. This technique makes it easier to study atoms."

[ziggy951]

I would think that in less than a month we will have a new administration that will give the Energy Department a swift kick and change that policy...


Still a blind believer eh? I just have to laugh.


Z

[Hoosier]

in fact, the $227 million facility is going up about 8 miles from my house. They will produce what they call "green hydrogen" & methanol via a new process from industrial, medical & household waste. Sounds very intriguing to me. I might also add, I live within a 20 minute drive to 2 ethanol plants and the country's largest bio-diesel plant. I hope these fuels (ethanol & bio-d) are only a short-term bridge to the fuels we all hope to see in widespread use.


ForeverGreen Enterprises http://www.fgenterprises.net/

I live in north-central Indiana. We are heavy in agriculture and auto manufacturing. Good to see progress on many fronts that ween us away from oil while diversifying our manufacturing base.

Color me "excited".

[Baja_Traveler]

Still a blind believer eh? I just have to laugh.


Z

What do you mean Still? I Won't believe anything until I see it happen.

Take your trolls someplace else...

[AZEqualizer]

This was reported at Autobloggreen: (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/02/us-fuel-cell-council-asks-for-1-2-billion-to-help-fuel-cells-ga/)

Federal funds for the auto industry are being handed out left and right these days, and the US Fuel Cell Council thinks that the Feds should find $1.2 billion for a Fuel Cell Stimulus Plan. The USFCC says that the money will create an estimated 24,000 jobs as well as "put hundreds of fuel cell vehicles and up to 100 megawatts of fuel cell power into customers' hands, reap efficiency, environmental and security benefits and create green jobs and high-tech manufacturing capacity for the American economy." Specifically, the Council thinks the government should:



Deploy fuel cells ($100 million)
Build American manufacturing capacity ($100 million)
Expand learning demonstrations ($375 million)
Improve Federal fuel cell investment tax incentives (no price tag given)
Stimulate fuel cell deployment by supporting a fueling infrastructure ($65 million)
Accelerate research in partnership with industry ($350 million)
Invest in fuel cell transit ($180 million)
Include fuel cells in Obama's energy initiative (no price tag given)

You can read the full USFCC proposal here (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/usfcc-proposal/1252633/) (page 2 (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/usfcc-proposal/1252634/)) and in the two-page gallery below. Green Car Congress (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/12/us-fuel-cell-co.html) reminds us that last July, a National Research Council study estimated that it would take about $200 billion between now and 2023 to make fuel cell vehicles competitive with gas-powered ones, and the government would have to pay about $55 of that.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/12/fuel_cell-_stimulus_12.18.0.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/12/fuel_cell-_stimulus_12.18.2.jpg

[NortonF1]

Any discussion about hydrogen is stupid as long as we don´t have the surplus energy to produce it.

The cost for hydrogen in Germany is presently at 2 Euro per liter gasoline equivilent (or appr. 11 USD per gallon), and that is just to produce it, no tax or infrastructure added!

Nice idea, but unpractible.

[AZEqualizer]

Anything is impractical when there is not a infrastructure for it. It is sometimes the chicken and the egg. But there are a number of new technologies both in the Fuel Cell field and hydrogen production that are being investigated that "may make this a more viable and less costly technology in the future."

Also one has to consider there are often price points at future points in time that make x amounts of $$$ not as out of the park as we see the same costs today. To automatically not investigate something based upon "the current day" is very narrow minded and has gotten us into some of the problems the world has right now.

[MikeB]

I think AZE posted (http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10719&postcount=3) the answer very recently: Methanol Fuel Cells are a far better choice, technology wise, than Hydrogen. The only problem is that nobody is providing juicy subsidies for Methanol right now.

[AZEqualizer]

I merged the two threads together to make it easier to find ... so now you all get to re-read this post from the begining.... Not real thrilled how it merges things but since this is a short thread it is not too bad.

[AZEqualizer]

Technology Review (http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/21838/?a=f) had this to post:
http://www.technologyreview.com/files/22539/fuel-cell_x220.jpg
Power polymer: A new polymer, shown in powdered form in this photo, can be used to make stable fuel-cell membranes that conduct negatively charged ions.
Credit: National Academy of Sciences/PNAS

Fuel cells (http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/21163/?a=f) are, in principle, the most efficient way to convert hydrogen fuel into electricity. But they require expensive catalysts such as platinum to split hydrogen into ions and electrical current. Cheaper metals simply can't withstand the harsh acidic environment of the fuel cell. Now researchers in China have developed a fuel cell that uses a new membrane material to operate in alkaline conditions, eliminating the need for an expensive catalyst. The power output of the new prototype, which uses nickel as a catalyst, is still relatively low, but it provides a first demonstration of a potentially much less expensive fuel cell.

Zhuang (a professor of chemistry at Wuhan University, in Wuhan, China)says that he and his group are working on improving the cell's power output by further tuning the catalyst and the membrane. They'll also have to demonstrate the long-term stability of the cell. "We believe that catalysts with higher activity and lower cost will soon be realized," he says.

[AZEqualizer]

I see that a number of manufactures have displayed products at this years CES using Methanol fuel Cells. Direct methanol fuel cells (DMFC), which run on a methanol-oxygen fuel mix, are seen as an alternative to traditional lithium-ion batteries because they can offer longer operating cycles and can be instantaneously recharged by simply replacing the fuel cartridge. One tablespoon of methanol has the same capability to deliver the same amount of electricity as a standard compressed air cylinder (“K” (or “200”) cylinder) of hydrogen and results in the same byproducts according to the "Science Channels" coverage of CES 2009.

Hydrogen has the highest energy content per unit weight—but not per unit volume—of any fuel. Its relatively low volumetric energy content poses a significant challenge for storage according to the DOE. Several manufactures are pursuing replaceable Methanol cartridges with the use of DMFC's as a easy way to replace batteries and feel they are very close to shrinking the product down to the size where it could be used directly in cell phones. As the product currently stands they are starting to show up as Laptop battery replacements and portable charging devices. This push for reduction in size and cost should also help out developement of this technology for electric vehicles as well.

[AZEqualizer]

GreenCarAdvisor (http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2009/04/dept-of-energy-awards-419-million-to-advance-fuel-cell-technology.html)and others posted this info:
The Dept. of Energy on Wednesday announced that it is awarding $41.9 million (http://www.energy.gov/news2009/7262.htm) in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act funding to help develop fuel cell technology for a variety of applications.

DoE anticipates that the awards, when coupled with $72.4 million that the 13 grant winners have agreed to spend, will push 1,000 fuel cell systems into operation.

A hefty percentage of those systems will involve vehicles with wheels - industrial forklifts that, as DoE notes, are a key, early market "in which fuel cells can compete with conventional power technologies."

In other fuel cell news reported in Autobloggreen (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/21/video-u-s-navy-experimenting-with-fuel-cell-uav/) we have reported that the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory is currently working on an unmanned aerial vehicle called the Ion Tiger that uses a hydrogen fuel cell and is able to fly further with more payload than conventional battery-powered models.

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