The Death of the SUV

[Derwin]

Thought this article was pretty interesting:

class=entry-title>The Death of the SUV

by Mike Krumboltz June 4, 2008 03:11:39 PM
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Dearly beloved. We gather here today to mourn the demise of the sport utility vehicle (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=sport+utility+vehicle&cs=bz), or "SUV (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=suv&cs=bz)" as its friends liked to call it.

The gas-guzzler lived a full life, driving in the fast lane from the 1990s to the mid-2000s. Alas, it fell ill a few years ago and never recovered. And really, we can't say the death came as a surprise. For years, folks complained about the environmental impact of low-mileage vehicles. Over time, those voices grew louder, but still the SUV fought on, proudly taking up two parking spaces and scaring hybrids (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=hybrids&cs=bz) from its lane.

But then, gas prices soared and the SUV's vital signs plummeted. As much as people love large cars, the costs to keep fuel in the tank proved too much to take. As the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/04/business/04leonhardt.html?_r=1&ref=automobiles&oref=slogin) reported, it now costs $100k to own and keep a similarly inefficient full size pickup running for five years. And so people pulled the plug on their trucks and SUVs, taking the beleaguered vehicles off life support and into the museum of dead car fads.

U.S. News and World Report (http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080604-General-Motors-Others-Decide-the-SUV-is-Dead/) has written a thoughtful and compelling obit on the yuppie chariot. Read it and remember the SUV's positive qualities as well as its faults. It's what it would have wanted.

:(This is a sad day for us all.:( . . . . . .;)

Derwin

[rogwild]

If they can come out with inexpensive EV conversions from ZENN, there might be 'Life after Death".

[Derwin]

Well, I believe in "life after death", and I think you may be correct. That's the "Zen" way of thinking!

I personally love SUV's for going on vacation and other things. They are great for pulling my boat and doing so many other things. But with gas so high now, and going higher, the're just not feasible anymore.


Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

I don't believe in life after death, and I hope the SUV will be gone forever! It was an egocentric and ostentatious enterprise to begin with. A gross waste of natural resources when there were so many reasonable alternatives.

It's death could not have come soon enough. =y:

[Derwin]

If all we had were little cars, then what would a large family use to get around? What would we use to pull our boats? What would we use to pick-up furniture and do other weekly chores that we normally do with a pick-up truck or other such vehicle.

There are MANY things that USE our natural resources, but I wouldn't call their use a "waste". What were the "reasonable alternatives" to having a vehicle for the entire family? Or for pulling a boat or other type of item?

SUV's have served a great purpose in people's lives. The fact that oil has been shooting through the roof is why they are going the way of the horse and buggy. Heck, I bought a Jeep Unlimited (the new 4-door model), and realized that I was only getting around 14mpg, and that was WITHOUT pulling my boat! That was when I said.....no way! That thing was sucking way too much money out of my pocket. I think this is how many people are feeling about it now, and that's why the SUV is dying.

I hope your correct, Celtic, about there being "alternatives" to the SUV. I would LOVE to be able to pull my boat, and get 100mpg doing it. But the vehicle does not exist yet that will do this. At least not that I know of.

I'm leaving on our annual fishing trip tomorrow morning, and we are using an SUV to fit everybody and to pull our boat. Without the SUV, we would be taking 2 or 3 cars. Now would that make any sense? Plus, we would have no way to pull our boat.

So, I hope rogwild is right. I hope the technology advancements come to a point where large vehicles will be "clean" and get high mileage. Here's hoping for the resurrection....soon!

Derwin

[RAN]

Celtic, I tend to agree with you.

[Derwin]

GM closing 4 truck and SUV plants in North America

Tue Jun 3, 12:34 PM ET

WILMINGTON, Del. - General Motors is closing four truck and SUV plants in the U.S., Canada and Mexico, affecting 10,000 workers, as surging fuel prices hasten a dramatic shift to smaller vehicles.

CEO Rick Wagoner said Tuesday before the automaker's annual meeting in Delaware the plants to be idled are in Oshawa, Ontario; Moraine, Ohio; Janesville, Wis.; and Toluca, Mexico. He also said the iconic Hummer brand will be reviewed and potentially sold or revamped.

Wagoner said the GM board has approved production of a new small Chevrolet car at a plant in Lordstown, Ohio, in mid-2010 and production of the Chevrolet Volt electric vehicle in Detroit.

Wagoner announced the moves in response to slumping sales of pickups and SUVs brought on by high oil prices. He said a market shift to smaller vehicles is permanent.

GM shares rose 43 cents, or 2.5 percent, to $17.87 in midday trading.

The cuts will affect 10,000 hourly and salaried workers. Many will be able to take openings created when 19,000 more U.S. hourly workers leave later this year through early retirement and buyout offers.

Wagoner said the company has no plans to allocate products to the four plants in the future.

"We really would not foresee the likely prospect of new products in the plants that we're announcing today that we'll cease production in," he told a Moraine, Ohio, city official who asked a question in a telephone conference call.

More cuts will be announced later. Wagoner said GM will consolidate engine, transmission and other parts operations to go with the assembly plant actions.

The actions add to a string of plant closures by the Big Three in the last several years. GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have announced the shutdown of 35 plants since 2005, according to Sean McAlinden, chief economist with the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. Along with 35 additional closures at GM and Ford's chief suppliers, Delphi Corp. and Automotive Components Holdings LLC, he said the total hourly and salaried jobs eliminated comes to 149,000.

In that same time period, foreign automakers have built or announced plans to build five U.S. assembly plants, he said. In 2007, foreign auto companies employed 113,000 people in the U.S., a number McAlinden projects will rise to 152,000 by 2011.

The Oshawa truck plant, which builds the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups, likely will be shuttered next year. The Moraine plant near Dayton, will stop making Chevy TrailBlazer and other mid-size SUVs in 2010 "or sooner if demand dictates," Wagoner said. In Janesville, the plant that builds medium-duty trucks and big SUVs like the Chevrolet Tahoe, will cease production starting at the end of 2009, finishing in 2010 or sooner if demand stays weak. In Toluca, production of medium-duty trucks will end by the end of 2008, Wagoner said.

The moves will save the company $1 billion per year starting in 2010. Combined with previous efforts, GM by 2011 will have cut costs by $15 billion a year over in 2005, Wagoner said.

Canadian Auto Workers President Buzz Hargrove said GM's decision to close its Oshawa truck plant betrays the labor agreement reached two weeks ago. He said the union will consider all options, including a strike.

GM committed to keep the plant of 2,600 people open throughout the three-year agreement, Hargrove said.

Wagoner said General Motors Corp.'s board approved the production schedule of the Chevrolet Volt, and the company plans to bring the plug-in electric car to showrooms by the end of 2010.

Fully charged, the Volt could drive about 40 miles without using any gasoline, and a small conventional engine would recharge the vehicle, extending its range and allowing it to get the equivalent of 150 miles per gallon. GM plans to sell about 100,000 Volts a year by 2012.

Wagoner said the change in the U.S. market to smaller vehicles likely is permanent. "We at GM don't think this is a spike or a temporary shift," Wagoner said.

On the Hummer, Wagoner said GM is "undertaking a strategic review of the Hummer brand, to determine its fit with GM's evolving product portfolio" in light of changing market conditions.

"At this point, we are considering all options for the Hummer brand... everything from a complete revamp of the product lineup to partial or complete sale of the brand," he said.

Detroit's automakers have been making the shift to more fuel-efficient vehicles, but not at the pace that matches consumers' drive to hybrids and high mileage models made overseas. Gas prices have accelerated the retreat from trucks and sport utility vehicles, leaving the Big Three at the most critical crossroads in 30 years.

The U.S. market is difficult for every automaker, with consumer confidence weak and 2008 sales expected to be the lowest in more than a decade. But it is most difficult for the Detroit Three, who have relied more heavily on sales of trucks and SUVs than their foreign counterparts. Trucks make up 70 percent of Chrysler LLC's U.S. sales, for example, compared to 41 percent at Toyota Motor Corp.

GM President and Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson said the new small car to be built in Lordstown would get 9 miles per gallon better fuel economy than the company's current small cars, the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 when equipped with a manual transmission. The most efficient Cobalt now gets 36 miles per gallon on the highway, although Henderson would not give a total mileage number.

It would be powered by a 1- to 1.4-liter four-cylinder gasoline engine that could be turbocharged for additional power, GM said. The new engine would be built in Flint.

Henderson said the plant closure measures would reduce the company's capacity to produce pickups and large SUVs by 700,000 per year, about 35 percent.

He also said GM is planning for gasoline prices to stay around $4 per gallon for the foreseeable future, "with a bias upwards."

When asked if GM should have moved more quickly to smaller vehicles, Henderson said he doesn't spend time looking in the rearview mirror.

"There's not much I can do about what I didn't do in the past," he said.

Pete Hastings, senior analyst with Memphis, Tenn.-based Morgan Keegan & Co., said GM's moves are painful yet prudent.

"It's a permanent shift, and they're right to recognize it," he said. "But is it enough? It's a bit early to tell. ... That's the hard part of gauging where we are in the economy — and how deep or strong the shift in demand is for more fuel-efficient vehicles."

Analyst Kevin Tynan of New York-based Argus Research Corp. said the Detroit Three automakers have been "caught with the market running away from them." While he recognizes GM's plight and efforts to overcome it, he still questions the aggressive push to market with the Volt, which is demanding heavy investment at a time when money is tight.

"It's very bad timing, very late in the game to be making big bets," he said. "At the same time, you don't have a choice."

The announcement is an economic blow to Janesville, which long has been entwined with automaking. The sprawling GM plant has survived the Depression, a world war and GM's major layoffs in the 1980s, but it will not escape the latest round of corporate belt-tightening.

"There were some tears and a lot of people were kind of ticked off, but it's part of the business," said Scott Lambert, 39, who has worked at the plant for 13 years.

He said he was headed to buy an atlas to figure where other GM plants were that might be hiring.

The plant, GM's oldest, opened in 1919 and long was the largest employer in Janesville, a city of 60,000 about 100 miles northwest of Chicago. But cutbacks have shrunk the work force to about 2,600, so it's no longer the city's biggest employer.

Detroit-based GM also has just emerged from a spate of labor problems, with two local union strikes at key factories and a nearly three-month strike at key parts maker American Axle and Manufacturing Holdings Inc.

GM said in a recent regulatory filing the strikes will cost it a total of $2 billion before taxes in the second quarter.

[AKP23]

Well, I have have a little different lean. Here in Alaska, about 45% (my estimate) of the driving population needs, must, have the SUV or 1/2 to 1 ton truck. While most of the owners would probably agree that the GPM sucks (some villages are paying $6.00 to $9.00 per gal), what we really need is better, more fuel efficient SUVs.

While we agree our vehicles are guzzlers, give us something better to carry our loads and over 100s of miles of dirt roads. And handle the winters with an average state temp of -23F below zero (some hit -63F last winter), and snow and ice from 2 feet to 25 feet plus in depth. Even at its worst, we still have to head out and put upwards of 1400 miles per month. I drive nearly 94% of my time just to and from work. And I average 1230 miles per month. Rain, snow, ice, landslides, moose crossings, floods, you name it. Firefighters will always come when called. :COP:

[Baja_Traveler]

it now costs $100k to own and keep a similarly inefficient full size pickup running for five years. And so people pulled the plug on their trucks and SUVs, taking the beleaguered vehicles off life support and into the museum of dead car fads.


Not Me!! I just got my Sentri border pass, and I'm filling the truck up 3 blocks south of the border for $2.17 a gallon for prime U.S. made diesel! Just topped the tank off this morning for a trip up to Big Bear and saved over $100 on the fillup. This is the second week of doing this, and it's confirmed perfectly legal - the border inspector I asked said it was no different than tourists going down for cheap booze if it's for personal use. Guess I don't have to get another car until the VV comes along!!

[Derwin]

I just got my Sentri border pass, and I'm filling the truck up 3 blocks south of the border for $2.17 a gallon for prime U.S. made diesel!

Wow! You are one LUCKY Soldier! Only $2.17 for a gallon of diesel? That is simply incredible. We just paid $5.47 a gallon here in Chicago.

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Was there life before SUVs? My family (including 5 kids) did just fine in a station wagon! And they consumed nowhere near the resources SUVs did, nor did they come with the air of superiority that so many of their drivers assumed.

[Derwin]

Was there life before SUVs? My family (including 5 kids) did just fine in a station wagon! And they consumed nowhere near the resources SUVs did, nor did they come with the air of superiority that so many of their drivers assumed.

Of course we survived without SUV's in the past. We also survived without cars in general in the past. But SUV's have been a fantastic tool in the lives of so many people.

As far as people having an "air of superiority" is concerned, you may have just been sensing a person's JOY of ownership. This has nothing to do with feeling superior. It's just a feeling of happiness in owning a vehicle that you truly love. Some people that don't own SUV's may view that as feeling superior, but it is not....at least not in my case, or those that I know. My real concern is this new "religion" that is forming around "green" cars, and alternative energies. I am all for these things (as you can see by my actions), but I have witnessed so many people look down at those that may not "buy-into" all of the "green" philosophy. I myself have been treated like nothing less than a "heretic" for not accepting 100% of the green "doctrine" that is going around. This is far more dangerous than a person simply enjoying their vehicle.

I would love it if we suddenly had the technology to run ALL of our vehicles on batteries, or on some other alternative energy. But I will ALWAYS like the bigger vehicles for pulling my boat....picking things up at home depot......and many other things. Right now I am driving a small 2-door Chevy Tracker Convertible on a daily basis, and I love it. But it sure won't do all the things that I need done in my life. This is where bigger vehicles come in handy.

Again, this is just MY opinion, and all other opinions are welcome and needed for an open and honest discussion.

Derwin

[Moorpark1]

Actually it's not an either/or situation. We had two cars which my wife and I used to go to work at the same location (I work 2 blocks down from her building). I got rid of 1 car and 1 payment which was a tremendous financial boost. I now needed a secondary mode of transportation so enter the VougeOne. That small 84 mpg vehicle will be my primary mode of transportation while the Hyundai Santa Fe will be my wife's and the whole families mode of long range transportation (the SUV is not paid of so I have it for the next 4 years whether I want to or not). The point is that both vehicles will complement each other, the economical one allowing transport with a minimum of fuel usage and the pain at the pump will automatically limit the usage of the Santa Fe.

[rogwild]

Yes, I think the present 'Pump Pain' is causing us all to 'rethink' our transportation requirements. I usually don't leave the house unless I can accomplish a group of closely (geographically) related tasks in ONE trip. If the 80+mpg VogueOne comes along, I'll be able to do 'most' of them for 1/3-1/4 the expense. But I'll still have to use the Honda Element (sort of SUV) for the 'hauling' tasks. Unfortunately, it will probably be years until an affordable EV conversion will be available in large numbers, for the 'average' guy.

[Derwin]

Rog, You own a Honda Element? Cool! I owned a 2004 Honda Element before I traded it in on the Jeep Unlimited. I really LOVED the element. The doors on that are really incredible, and the way the seats lay flat is nice. You can really fit a whole lot of "stuff" in the back of that when the seats are down! I regret trading that in now. That was one of the most "comfortable" vehicle that I have ever owned. It just "felt good" when I was driving it.

Hey, there's no "if's" about the VogueOne. The order has been placed with the company, and we will be getting them within a month or so. I am rather excited about it, to tell you the truth! That japenese site really has some nice information on it about mods and such. I think it's gonna be a hoot to own and "play" with!

Derwin

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Joy of ownership? I don't know about that. In fact, I don't sense that at all. Most people I've seen driving these behemoths have been trying to compensate for something. Many of them are puny little dweebs who are just trying to look tough. Most don't have "hauling" in mind when they get behind the wheel. It seems like all they want to do is intimidate other drivers and flex their passive aggressive muscles on the highways. Sure, it's great if you need a big old truck for work or play. More power to you. But if you don't need an SUV, it's gluttony plain and simple.

[Derwin]

Well then, I think you can say that about all the people who buy ANY kind of "power" car attempting to "compensate" for something as well. 45 year old guys driving a tricked-up trans-am, or other such things. I don't know. I'm not a psychologist or anything. I just know that I ENJOY driving a big car. I also enjoy driving a small car like the one I use daily now. I think you have a problem with certain PEOPLE and their PERSONALITIES.......Not so much the VEHICLE that they choose to drive. Then again, if you don't like SUV's, that's great. That's a personal preference.

My LIKE of certain SUV's is just a preference, that is all. If gas were 10 cents a gallon, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[CelticFlyer]

The choice of vehicle is only a visible symptom of the problem. LOL

[Derwin]

So, all those that drive SUV's have some sort of a "problem"? I'm sorry, Celtic, but that's getting into the "green religion" type of mindset. People make choices on what kind of vehicle they want to drive based on many different factors. Some simply like the way many SUV's look, and some really just enjoy driving them.

I guess I'm one of those guys that don't harp on people or make judgments about people based on what they decide to drive. For goodness sake, life is far too short for that. We should enjoy life, and what life has to offer. Since oil is a limited resource anyway, why not enjoy it while we still have it. Oil will surely be gone soon enough, and the world will be forced to come up with alternative ways to get around, and do a lot of other things.

Like I said earlier.....if oil was at $50 a barrel, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Derwin

[nvrblu]

Well then, I think you can say that about all the people who buy ANY kind of "power" car attempting to "compensate" for something as well. 45 year old guys driving a tricked-up trans-am, or other such things....


Like a Mustang? ;)

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2674&postcount=11

I have a 1995 Toyota Landcruiser. My main ride is a '94 Dodge Caravan. The Landcruiser gets 13-18 mpg (13 when pulling a trailer... 18 on highway with a tailwind). I've filled it up two or three times since October... too expensive to drive. The van gets 22-24 mpg so I drive it most of the time. My other ride is a Lotus Elise... averages 29 mpg and gets 35 on long road trips -- I've put 10K miles on it in 2 1/2 years, which includes 2 very long road trips.

I agree there are people driving SUVs that don't need them and don't use them for what they were originally designed. My previous vehicle was an SUV -- 1985 Jeep Cherokee. It was used for Sport, Utility, daily driver, off-road treks, camping, and long distance traveller. The Landcruiser replaced the Jeep for the same purposes (and I got a smokin' deal on in a private transaction from a Toyota sales manager who snapped it up when in came in for trade-in and then decided he couldn't afford it =y:).

I choose my vehicles for a reason and that reason is not vanity or "compensation". I like VV because it looks like a blast to drive... err... fly, and it saves $$$s on fuel. And, as soon as I can afford it, I'd like to fit my home with an on-grid PV system so I can save more on energy costs and be prepared to "fuel" a V1 for "free" from the sun.

Sure there are some people who drive SUVs for "safety" or "status", but it's not cool to make blanket statements that all SUV drivers are in some way evil.

ps -- CelticFlyer, I live in Mesa, AZ, and I still have seen your old ride ;)

[CelticFlyer]

That is a pretty sweet ride, isn't it? ;)

I was (over) compensating for years of driving wrecks that never should have been allowed on the road! :LOL:

Most people don't stop to weigh their wants and needs. SUVs are just another example of overbuying. That's the "problem," Derwin. Most of the people who drive SUVs don't NEED them. Marketing types have simply convinced them that they can't live without one. It's their job. And in this climate of "he who dies with the most toys wins," they achieve their goal with ease. But hey, if you absolutely need an SUV to haul your boat, or your camper, or your Sea-doo, or if you need 400 horsepower to move your butt to the local 7-11 to get a pack of Luckys and a six pack of Miller Genuine Draft, then by all means, get one.

I'm just saying that there are alternatives. If that's "harping," then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

[Derwin]

But hey, if you absolutely need an SUV to haul your boat, or your camper, or your Sea-doo, or if you need 400 horsepower to move your butt to the local 7-11 to get a pack of Luckys and a six pack of Miller Genuine Draft, then by all means, get one.

I'm just saying that there are alternatives. If that's "harping," then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

Hey, sorry about that "harping" comment. I really didn't mean anything by it, but now that I look back at it, that word sounds way too harsh!

Celtic, I'm all for alternative transportation, obviously. But I don't see the alternatives that you keep mentioning. Where is the alternative vehicle that will pull my 19' boat? Heck, if you know of an electric vehicle, or any alternative powered vehicle that can do the job, then please post it here. When they come out with a vehicle that can do all the same things as an SUV, pick-up truck, or other large vehicle, AND get incredible mileage, AND be eco-friendly, than sign me up! But not if it's going to cost me $100,000! At this point in time, we don't have such a vehicle to my knowledge. So, if you know of any, please post them here. I'm always willing to stand corrected.

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

Derwin, you keep missing my point. I said MOST people don't NEED an SUV. Many SUV drivers NEVER tow anything, NEVER take them OFF-ROAD, and NEVER haul anything but a few kids and some groceries. We'd all live better if they just settled for something REASONABLE and better-suited to their real-world needs.

If you need a truck to haul something, go on and get one! Alternatives to SUVs might include a mini van, pickup truck or any number of V8-equipped cars. Remember, we're not talking about the death of TRUCKS. We're talking about the death of SUVs. There is some hope: they have recently undergone diets to become "crossovers." Less is indeed more.

I agree with you that if oil were $50 a barrel, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. However, cheap oil has ENABLED us to justify driving vehicles that are gross polluters and consume copious amounts of fuel, very often to run silly errands that would NEVER require the torque and horsepower these beasts boast.

PS - I don't subscribe to ANY "religion," the least of which involving green living. I just hate seeing unnecessary waste. ;)

[cpaddock]

Can't resist this thread! I'm pretty much aligned with Celtic on this one. Remember the oil shortage of the '70's? Well, some of us do. And how there was a 55 mph speed limit imposed (and enforced) in order to save gas? (Drag from air resistance increases with the square of the the speed)....In many ways those were the good old days. The highway death toll went down. The EV1 came out. Small was beautiful. And then another era of cheap oil ensued and cars started getting bigger and bigger and so, by the way, did houses. There seems to be a disconnect between what we think we "need" and what we could actually live happily with. Now, thankfully, market forces are causing
us to re-think these issues and adjust our consumptive lifestyles accordingly. Gas guzzlers and 10,000 sq ft houses are becoming as politically incorrect as cigarette smoking. Feel threatened by the "green" movement? Perhaps it's the reflection that makes you uncomfortable. There is a small but growing segment of the motoring public who are hip to the notion of hyper-mileing. That is, you slow down, enjoy the scenery,
coast as much as possible, accelerate as gently as possible and arrive alive and relaxed,
and save as much as 20% of your fuel. We still have an attitude problem though. Maui
just opened a new stretch of 4 lane highway and I had my Miata up to 80 mph and the traffic (including massive SUV's and Monster trucks) was pulling away from me as we whizzed past the 45 mph signs! Are we afraid the beaches will be gone before we can get there? Actually, as sea levels rise thanks to GW they are erroding at record rates!
Anyway, somethings happining here. What it is ain't exactly clear. It seems the bipedal hominids on this planet are undergoing a painful birth of consciousness. And the death of one polar bear won't make much difference to the world. But it will make a hell of difference to the polar bear!
Curves Ahead!

[Moorpark1]

I do not subscribe to the Algoracle Green Theology that the all-powerful mankind is responsible for all the ills of the world. Back before the dinosaurs, the earth superheated (without SUV's and mankinds help) and 98% of terrestial and aquatic life perished in the Triassic Extinction. If all of mankind dropped dead in the next 2 minutes nature would with reclaim the planet probably within two centuries. Does that mean we continue in our ecololgically disasterous ways? No, pollution has a way of making its presence known. It's all about choices (and what's available the average citizen) I choose a six cylinder SUV for family outings and cargo carrying qualities back before any of us knew about the coming crunch. Celtic, jerks we will always have with us, in all types of vehicles, sex and hopefully of legally driving age. Cpaddock has it right, education and re-eduction without the religious hysteria is needed. I have a feeling that reality and the school-of-hard nocks is going to be educating most of us fairly soon.

[CelticFlyer]

Watch the documentary "A Crude Awakening" if you haven't already. But clear the room of sharp objects beforehand; it's pretty depressing and you may be tempted to open a vein.

Aside from the pollution/consumption standpoints, SUVs have always gotten on my nerves because they are so gosh-darn HUGE! They dwarf anyone else on the road, produce dangerous blind spots and leave little room in parking lots for egressing from your passenger car. There I said it. =D

[RAN]

Moorpark, the difference is, we weren't here when Earth superheated the last time :-) I don't know how much of that heating period came from inadequate atmospheric protection, rampant volcanic activity, or solar flares. Today, we know what greenhouse and toxic gases can do (to us - not the planet), and we're producing them at an alarming rate. A century ago, nobody worried about the consequences of an oil/coal burning economy, but we no longer have that luxury. As you and George Carlin say, the planet will be fine; the people are f**ked*. How sad that we are so hell-bent on destroying ourselves. As innovative as we are, sooner or later somebody's going to get it right.

Rick (in just as sunny but possibly less flaky AZ)

A new paradigm... "the Earth Plus Plastic" * :RADAR:

*from George Carlin "Jammin' in New York" 1992, "The Planet is Fine"

[RAN]

Celtic, I agree that SUVs are just obnoxious on the streets. Driven by insecure people who feel "important" sitting up higher in traffic and blocking the view of it for the rest of us while consuming twice the fuel and spewing twice the pollutants. I recently took a road trip from Phoenix to New Orleans (Jazz-Fest was great, thank you :-Þ), and much of I-10 in west Texas has a posted 80 mph speed limit. Here I am in my 4 cyl car trying to hold myself to 70-75 mph to conserve on gas, while virtually every SUV on the road blew past me doing 85+. Screw those people! May they have tiny, inconsequential genitals and mates that cheat on them and kids that end up in jail and may they end up going broke buying gas! There. I feel better now too. :LOL:

[cpaddock]

Lemmings racing to the cliff in SUV's!!! We have met the enemy, and we are it! People of Earth, the party is almost over. Better save enough gas to get Home! $150 a barrel by July 4th! Anybody see a trend here? Think it through, if you dare.
Ciao!

[Moorpark1]

Were DOOMED, everybody kill themselves! Good God, can we avoid the theatrics? I just explained that most people choose an SUV for family reasons and because something smaller, such as the station wagon had been phased out. I don't think it was done out of evil intent. Yes Celtic, I too have cursed idiotic SUV drivers as they zoom by me in total oblivion to speed regulations and common curtesy. But as I said, reality has a way of straightening things out. The Hummer is extinct and all its ilk, including trucks, sit languishing in the sales lots. I have faith that Humanity and technology will triumph and I think we are seeing a glimmer of this in these blogs and all the "Green" transportation poping up all over the place.

[nvrblu]

I've seen a black Smart ForTwo in my area for the past month or two. I was out on my bicycle last week and discovered where the owner lived. The Smart was in the driveway, next to it was a BMW 740Li, and in the garage there was a 427 Cobra. It was a median valued home.

How would you explain that?

Maybe the Smart was an example of someone trying to be in "style".

[cpaddock]

We are only "doomed" if we do nothing or continue with business as usual. Is the dead canary being theatrical? There are still so many die-hard deny-ers out there that it seems appropriate to try to scare the hell out them. Like those pictures of black, cancerous lungs we were subjected to in high school health class, and photos of car wreck aftermath we had to look at in driver's ed. Sobering. For some. Quickly forgotten by others, myself included. I guess I have the "reformed smoker" syndrome. I thought
the image of a rodent driving an SUV was pretty funny, like "Tunesis" the cat at the wheel. We do need to laugh at ourselves occasionally. But if we are so smart, how did we manage to muck things up so badly? Who knows? Maybe what's needed is a little less
technology. Maybe we need to press our ears to the earth and listen.
Over....

[Moorpark1]

Exactly, here in California you have many Hollywood "stars" purchasing different kinds of green vehicles that will sit in garages and never see the light of day except for photo-ops. I plan to wear out my VougeOne (if I don't wear out first) and maybe by then the V1 will be available and I will have saved up enough to buy it.

[CelticFlyer]

Uh...okay.

This just in...de de de de de de de (no, it's not Carlos Mencia...picture a teletype of yesteryear, folks) :LOL:

Can you say "PERFECT TIMING?" :rolleyes:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/SacBee6-7-08No1.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/SacBee6-7-08No2.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/SacBee6-7-08No3.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/SacBee6-7-08No4.jpg

At the risk of sounding like a televangelist ("heaven" forbid) "Brothas and sistas, can I get an amenah?"

Oh...and one more thing. Muhahahahahaha :p

I'm lovin' this.

[AKP23]

Celtic, as a Honda Ridgeline owner myself, I'm curious about that article and pic. Are they inferring the Ridgeline is bad or what?

I've been driving Chevy and Ford trucks for 36 years. Jan '06 I bought my first "not American designed" vehicle, and became absolutly hooked. It's rated 21 mpg hiway, and I get an average of 21.8 mpg with my style of driving. Carrying capasity is outstanding. But are they now indicating the Ridgeline is a fuel monster?

Until something better comes along, I'll remain a fuel monster, I guess.

[CelticFlyer]

Wow. That sucks. Guess so. =y: It's going to be especially hard to justify driving that rig when gas hits $12-$15 a gallon. That'll cost you $264 bucks for a fill-up, and that's a conservative estimate.