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Derwin
07-05-2008, 04:46 PM
Laugh at High Gas Prices With a 282-MPG VW

By Chuck Squatriglia http://blog.wired.com/images/icon_email.gif (chuck_squatriglia@wired.com)July 03, 2008 | 7:30:00 AMCategories: Concept Cars (http://blog.wired.com/cars/concept_cars/index.html), Fuel Economy (http://blog.wired.com/cars/fuel_economy/index.html)


http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=578&stc=1&d=1215290482

With gas prices going through the roof and regulators requiring cars to be ever more miserly, Volkswagen is bringing new meaning to the term "fuel efficiency" with a bullet-shaped microcar that gets a stunning 282 235 mpg.

Volkswagen's had its super-thrifty One-Liter Car concept vehicle -- so named because that's how much fuel it needs to go 100 kilometers -- stashed away for six years. The body's made of carbon fiber to minimize weight (the entire car weighs just 660 pounds) and company execs didn't expect the material to become cheap enough to produce the car until 2012.

But VW's decided to build the car two years ahead of schedule.
According to Britain's Car magazine (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Green-Cars/Search-Results/Green-News/VW-to-relaunch-one-litre-eco-car/?R=EPI-6298&content-block=1), VW has approved a plan to build a limited number of One-Liters in 2010. They'll probably be built in the company's prototype shop, which has the capacity to build as many as 1,000 per year. That's not a lot, but it's enough to help VW get a lot of attention while showing how much light weight and an efficient engine can achieve.

VW unveiled the slick two-seater concept six years ago at a stockholder's meeting in Hamburg. To prove it was a real car, Chairman Ferdinand Piech personally drove it from Wolfsburg to Hamburg. At the time, he said the car could see production when the cost of its carbon monocoque (http://www.diseno-art.com/tutorials/monocoque.html) dropped from 35,000 Euros (about $55,000) to 5,000 Euros (about $8,000) -- something he figured would happen in 2012. With carbon fiber being used in everything from airliners to laptops these days, VW's apparently decided the cost is competitive enough to build at least a few hundred One-Liters.

VW's engineers -- who spent three years developing the car -- made extensive use of magnesium, titanium and aluminum to bring it in at less than one-third the weight of a Toyota Echo. According to Canadian Driver (http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/vw1litre.htm), the front suspension assembly weighs just 18 pounds. The six-speed transmission features a magnesium case, titanium bolts and hollow gears; it weighs a tad more than 50 pounds. The 16-inch wheels are carbon fiber. The magnesium steering wheel weighs a little more than a pound. How much of the concept car's exotic hardware makes it to the production model remains to be seen.

Low weight only gets you so far in the quest for ultimate fuel economy; aerodynamics plays a big role. The One-Liter is long and low, coming in at 11.4 feet long, 4.1 feet wide and 3.3 feet tall. It features an aircraft-like canopy, flat wheel covers and a belly pan to smooth the airflow under the car. The engine cooling vents open only when needed, and video cameras take the place of mirrors. The passenger sits behind the driver to keep the car narrow. The car has a coefficient of drag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficients) of 0.16; the average car comes in around 0.30 and the Honda Insight had a Cd of 0.25.

As for the engine, the concept had a one-cylinder diesel engine producing 8.5 horsepower and 13.5 foot-pounds of torque. Car says the production model will use a two-cylinder turbodiesel for a little more oomph. Doubling the number of cylinders is sure to cut fuel economy, so VW may install a diesel-hybrid drivetrain (http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/vw-rolls-out-a.html). The engine turns off at stop lights to save fuel, then automatically restarts when the driver depresses the accelerator pedal.

(Update: The car reportedly has anti-lock brakes, stability control and airbags. According to Canadian Driver, "Volkswagen says the One-Liter Car is as safe as a GT sports car registered for racing. With the aid of computer crash simulations, the car was designed with built-in crash tubes, pressure sensors for airbag control and front crumple zones.")

What's it gonna cost? Car quotes "one well-placed insider" who says the One-Liter could have a sticker price of anywhere from 20,000 to 30,000 Euros (about $31,750 to $47,622). That's a lot of money. But then, the One-Liter, despite its diminutive size, is a lot of car.

Note/Update: Turns out the 282 mpg figure refers to Imperial gallons; the proper figure when converted to U.S. gallons is 235 mpg.

Photos by Volkswagen

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=579&stc=1&d=1215290482

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=580&stc=1&d=1215290482

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http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=584&stc=1&d=1215290482

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=585&stc=1&d=1215290482

Bulldog
07-05-2008, 04:58 PM
The only reason I voted is NO is mainly the price being out of line for what the VV is going to offer, tilting, cool ride and interior and all. If VW could come down on price then VV might have a run for their money.

rogwild
07-05-2008, 05:54 PM
Bulldog, I agree, way too much money for the vehicle. Now VW could truly make this a "People's Car" and get the price down to perhaps $10,000-15,000 for a 'stripped down', high mileage, two person transport......they could not build them fast enough; they would have another VW Beetle or Messerschmitt that would become a classic. I doubt that people that can afford to pay 30-50k for a 2-person vehicle are really going to be TOO concerned about mileage and the cost of a gallon of fuel.=n:

Anyone else notice that the VW is the only vehicle (smallest, lightest) that does NOT have its headlights ON in the last picture? I wonder if that is a 'statement' of VW's concern for safety?:p

Miracleman89
07-05-2008, 06:25 PM
I can't vote! The options listed do not include No because V1 is in a class above this and the VW doesn't stand a chance next to the V1!

sorry my bad! misread it! thought it said VW!

Derwin
07-05-2008, 06:55 PM
I can vote! The options listed do not include No because V1 is in a class above this and the VW doesn't stand a chance next to the V1!

I think option "2" would have covered you, MM89! "VV is creating such a unique vehicle, that nothing will really be serious competition to them."

This is indeed how I feel about it. I don't care if they come out with a car that gets 400mpg. If it is just another plain car, then I would ALWAYS choose the V1 from Venture Vehicles over it. The VV vehicle is simply in a class by itself, at least for the time-being, in regards to the FUN FACTOR that we always talk about.

Derwin

Bulldog
07-05-2008, 07:12 PM
If someone came out with a car that got 400mpg and was under 25G then VV would be a vehicle I would look at down the road after they had a number of them out and the bugs worked out.

RAN
07-05-2008, 10:06 PM
VW is scared to build a true People's Car again. That's why they're building it in limited numbers for a premium price. Shame on them. Leave the Rabbits and Jettas to rust on their dealers' lots. Maybe that will shake them back to reality.

Mainstream automakers are being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It's about time!!!

azskycop
07-06-2008, 08:30 AM
Gotta say I own a VW and as a car fanatic it has become one of my favorite brands. They build a great car, German quality at a price that is not out of line. If they do build this car in enough numbers to make it affordable I would seriously consider buying one.

TazmanianKoala
07-06-2008, 08:31 AM
I do not think that this vehicle is a competition for the Venture One.
It just is too big on front and back side. There simply is too much of the car behind the rear wheels. And of course the fun factor of tilting is missing.

CelticFlyer
07-06-2008, 10:35 AM
It's an interesting machine. Unfortunately, it reminds me of that weird looking Honda Insight. Yeah, it's functional but very peculiar. The cost seems a bit high too, but who knows? Maybe it would drop if enough of these were produced over time. And who could argue with the fuel economy? After the conversion, you're getting 235 mpg! That means I could drive it to and from work for over a month on ONE GALLON of fuel! Now that's what I call fuel efficient. That alone would help me "live with" the odd-looking styling.

azskycop
07-06-2008, 01:02 PM
I actually like the styling of this car. Especially the fighter cockpit canopy. Only concern there is how hot it will get with the sun coming straight in from the top. They better have an A/C from a MAC truck.....but that probably would weigh more than the car itself!!

meckman1
07-06-2008, 02:17 PM
Wow! I think it's really cool. Still like the V1 better, though.

Miracleman89
07-06-2008, 04:42 PM
Well now that I think about it I am still boycotting VW because of their complete failure to produce the GX3 Mule! I wrote them several letters and got the brush off! I even called the companies USA headquarters, and still the brush off! When they begin to produce the GX3 I will start to reconsider my position! Otherwise, VW will never get a dime from me!

Besides The Venture One will destroy all competition!

cpaddock
07-07-2008, 11:46 AM
I saw this machine on Auto Blog Green a while back and their main impression was that
the one cylinder engine would provide laughable performance. Two cylinders would be better, but the price is untouchable. Maybe they could have them built in China:)!

Baja_Traveler
07-07-2008, 12:57 PM
The article also says that VW is looking into a Diesel-Hybrid to replace the one cylinder powerplant it has now - we already know that it will never meet smog standards here in the U.S. based on Aptera and VV's experience. But, assuming they can make it for a competitive price - and I think they can - I'd buy it over the Aptera any day (assuming the VV doesn't make it for some reason). The prototype shown in the article was built for maximum economy, hence the puny engine - bigger engine, less economy - you have to decide what you want - fast off the line and high speeds = lower fuel efficiency (for a straight ICE powered vehicle). I drive a diesel truck, I'll bet the acceleration performance of the VW is about the same off a stop light - and 1800% more fuel efficient! Of course I can literally put that VW in the bed of my truck and not notice a decline in performance either...

rogwild
07-07-2008, 01:05 PM
Diesel engines are getting 'cleaner' all the time. Perhaps current (considered for Aptera and VV) diesels don't meet "California Standards", but there are 49 other states out here.

MikeB
07-07-2008, 02:06 PM
Diesel engines are getting 'cleaner' all the time. Perhaps current (considered for Aptera and VV) diesels don't meet "California Standards", but there are 49 other states out here.

Actually, there are 18 states that use the California standards, and possibly more in the near future.

Volkswagen is perfectly aware of what it takes to make a CA certified diesel, since their newest TDI is CARB certified (50 state legal). Aptera was looking for an off-the-shelf small diesel, since they can't afford to build their own. VW won't have that problem, they already have everything they need. If VW wants to make it, it'll happen. (Of course, they may decide it's too expensive to sell, but that's a different issue.)

azskycop
07-07-2008, 03:14 PM
If VW were smart they would use an electric engine and diesel powered small genset, something like the V1. Mileage would drop but off the line performance and acceleration would be much better. Even if they "Only got 150MPG" they would sell a ton of these cars.

TazmanianKoala
07-07-2008, 04:14 PM
I just do not like the design of the car. It is just too wide, with a small canopy. Seems like a lot of air to be transported over the road. The cockpit interior seems like a scaled down version of any production model. That is not very spacial.
In such a car I would expect something special, something that should make it stand out from the masses.
I know, using standard materials would make production a lot cheaper, but now the only specialty would be the engine. For me, that is not enough to consider buying this car.

The Venture One has a lot more specialties in it.

Mark Tomlinson
07-07-2008, 11:13 PM
The article also says that VW is looking into a Diesel-Hybrid to replace the one cylinder powerplant it has now - we already know that it will never meet smog standards here in the U.S. based on Aptera and VV's experience. But, assuming they can make it for a competitive price - and I think they can - I'd buy it over the Aptera any day (assuming the VV doesn't make it for some reason). The prototype shown in the article was built for maximum economy, hence the puny engine - bigger engine, less economy - you have to decide what you want - fast off the line and high speeds = lower fuel efficiency (for a straight ICE powered vehicle). I drive a diesel truck, I'll bet the acceleration performance of the VW is about the same off a stop light - and 1800% more fuel efficient! Of course I can literally put that VW in the bed of my truck and not notice a decline in performance either...
VW is probably the leader in clean diesel (my opinion only). They pulled all their TDI diesels off the US market a year or so ago and have thrown all types of resources at it. So if anyone can pull it off, I think VW would be the ones.

I still think the car is ugly, though.

FlyUS287
07-09-2008, 02:38 AM
The 1L is so light it will experience massive acceleration in an accident. It also appears too small to be safe driving among American SUVs. Finally it is priced far too high for its utility. (I also find the 1L to be ugly, and it doesn't look fun to drive--but that's just me.)

If it were priced in the $10K - $15K range, VW might have something, but I believe we would need to see a strong downward trend in the average size and weight of vehicles on the road before the general public would accept an ultralight mini-vehicle like the 1L.

JoeU
09-15-2009, 03:16 PM
Here is the latest on the VW L1
http://www.gizmag.com/vw-shows-170-mpg-tandem-diesel-hybrid-two-seater/12833/

voyager
10-14-2009, 01:25 PM
The 1L is so light it will experience massive acceleration in an accident. It also appears too small to be safe driving among American SUVs. Finally it is priced far too high for its utility. (I also find the 1L to be ugly, and it doesn't look fun to drive--but that's just me.)

If it were priced in the $10K - $15K range, VW might have something, but I believe we would need to see a strong downward trend in the average size and weight of vehicles on the road before the general public would accept an ultralight mini-vehicle like the 1L.


Well, the same applies to the ol' Carver, doesn't it? People shouldn't see and use these kind of (narrow track) vehicles as automobiles, but rather as crossovers between cars and motorcycles: highly flexible, practical and fuel-efficient. There has been an upward spiral of cars growing bigger and heavier. Obviously, VW's 1 Liter Wagen doesn't stand a chance against a Hummer H1 in a collision. So does a BMW X5 against a Peterbilt.

dr4
10-14-2009, 02:06 PM
The 1L is so light it will experience massive acceleration in an accident. It also appears too small to be safe driving among American SUVs.

Yes, there's no getting around the physics of light vs massive. On the other hand, I've read that most collisions occur between a vehicle and a non-moving object. I can say from experience that there's no getting around low mass and the handling characteristics of a vehicle. Lighter is safer. I owned a 1955 Moretti GS that weighed about 1080 lbs. Sure it was scary, but I wouldn't trade the ride for anything. See: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/other-italian-cars/56300-moretti-750-gran-sport-4.html#post746207

wireman
10-14-2009, 06:04 PM
Well, the same applies to the ol' Carver, doesn't it? People shouldn't see and use these kind of (narrow track) vehicles as automobiles, but rather as crossovers between cars and motorcycles: highly flexible, practical and fuel-efficient. There has been an upward spiral of cars growing bigger and heavier. Obviously, VW's 1 Liter Wagen doesn't stand a chance against a Hummer H1 in a collision. So does a BMW X5 against a Peterbilt.
Gotta go with you on this one V. The market IS out there for these vehicles, or we wouldn't have a club! There are many who will not give up their upholstered tanks, no matter how bad the oil situation gets, or how efficient/practical/SAFE the alternatives prove themselves to be. But WE KNOW what WE WANT here at FTRC. As for the L1, I think the market would be split between that and Persu, or another similar vehicle. Drivers wanting ONLY e/p/S will go L1, and the rest of us will Fly The Road!

rickb
10-14-2009, 10:37 PM
A narrow track vehicle with the VW L1 specifications is an absolute beautiful piece of work. A 170 mpg "Silver Bullet" which may have surprising safety ratings.

wireman
10-15-2009, 12:40 PM
A narrow track vehicle with the VW L1 specifications is an absolute beautiful piece of work. A 170 mpg "Silver Bullet" which may have surprising safety ratings.
agr:1But only from the engineering perspective, rb. You know me, I'm a donkey on the EDGE!r:o:f:l:2:2:1

I will add this. Though I would prefer to wait for (in order of preference) BMW/Simple, Persu/ Hybrid, or RevMo/ Dagne, if none of these has appeared to compete with the VW/ L1 when I really need (and can afford) a commuter, I will definately be looking at the L1!

rickb
10-15-2009, 03:06 PM
agr:1But only from the engineering perspective, rb. You know me, I'm a donkey on the EDGE!r:o:f:l:2:2:1

I will add this. Though I would prefer to wait for (in order of preference) BMW/Simple, Persu/ Hybrid, or RevMo/ Dagne, if none of these has appeared to compete with the VW/ L1 when I really need (and can afford) a commuter, I will definately be looking at the L1!

I must say that I agree with your order of preference although I would add the MonoTracer or ETracer right after the PH. From a design perspective the VW 1L looks like a cross between a rocket and the original Honda Insight but looks to be an engineering masterpiece.

Ford will be happy to here how much you like the Edge.r:o:f:l:2:2:1

wireman
10-15-2009, 07:00 PM
HA! Those bloobs at Ford wouldn't have the guts to come here to FTRC and find out what they should be shooting for. Like the others we've talked about, all they have it in them to do is re-invent the (four) wheel! Henry was a risk taker/ innovator, and I bet he is spinning in his grave, due to the lack of vision they show today!