Why Do I Want a VentureOne? (Really)

[Jack Willard]

The excitement of the ride! dr:ive1)

I have to agree with Derwin on this one. It has been such a long time since I have had a reason to get excited about the possibility of having some vehicle just for the pure excitement of the ride.

The last time was in the early 1980's, when ultralight aircraft flying was just starting to becoming a rage. Now THAT was a kick! hy:per1) Imagine flying at 6,000 feet, near the approach to the Oakland airport, and constantly looking around to see if there was a jet airliner coming, whose jet wash alone could wipe you out of the sky! wh;aa;aa;t1

My best friend and I had co-owned and learned to fly a hanglider. He then built an ultralight and so did I. The aerial dogfights we had, and flying to the next airport through the low-lying fog with nothing more to guide us than following the tops of the telephone poles next to the road we knew to get there, STILL gives me goosebumps!

Being much older now (57), and hopefully somewhat smarter, I am much less inclined to actually take my LIFE into my hands in search of an adrenaline rush. And the view of an actual end of life is focusing into the mind, along with the need to create something that might bring enjoyment during an imagined retirement period. du:n:n:o(

I am NOT dead yet and intend to go down the path KICKING and SCREAMING!

Periods of JOY need to be planned into the future. And imagining the sounds my beautiful wife will make on one of our just for fun rides makes me happy just thinking about it. You should have seen the HIGH SIGNS th:c:oo:l:202 when I took her for a "kamakazi" aerobatic flight in an old Stearman for her birthday. She is SUCH an adrenaline junky.

Being a somewhat responsible person, it does appeal to me that contributing to an eco-movement is something that SHOULD be done. Save The Redwoods and The Jacque Cousteau Society have been part of my past. Buying an electric/gas hybrid vehicle would continue my "tree-hugger" status.

But in case it isn't obvious, I should mention that I AM a pedal-to-the-metal kind of person. Performance is important, or I'm not going to buy ($$$). :( When I hit the throttle, it BETTER be frisky! I don't ask permission to pass. I just DO IT! :COP:

Look at it this way. If you're not living life on the EDGE (razor), then you're taking up too much space on the planet! So..., I don't have a problem with living with a few less miles to the gallon as it were. How about having your cake and eating it too? Getting say 60 mpg, the way I drive, would feel like getting both.

Building in safety, wherever you can, is a SMART thing to do. And it does not take away from the excitement. A 5 point racing type seatbelt harness brings with it, after a few minutes, a certain level of confidence. Flying upside-down in an open cockpit aerobatic aircraft, hands free and thumbs up, does not feel that risky when held by such a seatbelt.

Okay, a 3 point seatbelt would be just fine in a VentureOne. But the thought of a driver airbag being OPTIONAL is just so... STUPID! o:o:p:s12

And don't for a second think that THIS older and somewhat smarter person is going to spend $30,000 for a VentureOne! I am not that stupid. Venture Vehicles had better keep their eye-on-the-BALL! And Obama or somebody better get us that tax credit! cool:thu:mb1

It' ALL about
The excitement of the ride! dr:ive1)

[Russ]

Jack, I am with you on the power thing. I refuse to pay lots of $$$$ for something that won't even pass up a turtle. If it takes Ian and the rest of the guys at VV to figure out that they need to put in a ICE to get the machines out on the market than so be it. I myself would like to see a clean DICE for the first power plant if they can find one that is 50 state certified. Those DICEs offers plenty of tourque and power and on top of that better fuel efficient to. With the Dice you can pull a trailer behind you for those long trips with the spouse. That is what I am looking for. Take a trip out west, just me and the mrs. in our Dice powered V-1 getting close to 80 mpg and that is pulling a motorcycle trailer behind us. If the fuel tank is 8 gallon tank, we won't have to stop for fuel for a very long time. The power to let you pass on the highway towing that trailer and think nothing of it. That is my dream V-1. 0-60 mph in 5 seconds or less.

I too am concerned about the air we breathe but I want a V-1 that doesn't take forever for the electric motor to kick in to pass someone on the highway. I know the electric tech is getting better as time goes by but it is so expensive right now. Rotary ICEs sound nice but again will it be enough. I figure if I get 45+ miles to the gallon of fuel, then I am doing better than the average motorcycle fan, and yet be in the comfort of a enclosed cabin that will kept me warm and dry. HARD TO WAIT! Come VV guys, show us what you got. I dare ya.

Russ

[RAN]

I too am concerned about the air we breathe but I want a V-1 that doesn't take forever for the electric motor to kick in to pass someone on the highway.

Russ, the V-1 is a serial hybrid (or a Real hybrid, as I call it). The electric motor drives the wheels all the time, and it has plenty of torque on tap. The ICE is only there to charge the batteries. That's not the problem.

The problem is, originally Ian planned the V-1 to use in-wheel hub motors. This arrangement left enough room in the small power pod for everything else to fit. Late last year (or was it early this year?), Ian decided that the PML hub motors were "not ready for prime time" (possible translation: he couldn't get them for the price he wanted). Now, that limited power pod real estate has to house the motor(s) too, and I'm sure they're having a hell of a time trying to fit everything in.

Since it's apparent they don't want to go back to the hub motors (I wonder how much money the delays and redesigns have cost them???), then an ICE is the only way they're going to get production models out the door anytime approaching soon. If that's the case, I'd like to see a diesel too, but with the strict emissions requirements for them, it's not likely to happen.

I want a green vehicle first. I don't want to have to burn gas at all. If you're really concerned about the air you breathe, you should too. It's not about the cost of gas, ridiculous as it is. It's about what's left in the air after millions of vehicles burn the gas.

[Russ]

Thanks Ran for the electric motor update. I am not up to speed on the whole series hybrid and parallel hybrid thing. I am still stuck in the old technology thing that has been around for years. I suppose my thinking is if you are trying something brand new and having problems getting it to work or getting the cost down to where the average joe like me can afford it, resort back to some old but proven methods just to get it up and running. I am considered old school.


Now getting back to the original theory that Ian wanted to use an ICE to charge the battery pack(s), would the generator also send power to the motors to asist the battery(s) in powering the motors to spin the wheels? My only three complaints with the hybrid tech, is reliablity, longevity and those battery cells that can go bad, PLUS the disposal or recycling of them. It is new technology that will require some time to tweak it in and make it more cost effective to.


Like I said Ran, I am all for cleaning the air WE all breathe and become less depentand on oil, but I don't want to lose the FUN FACTOR in owning this new piece of machinery which is the main reason I want to own one of these babies. I look forward to the day when I can go to work and ask my crew, "did you ride your motorcycle in on this rainy day?" I did and didn"t get wet either. LOL Hang in there everyone. Don't count VV out yet .

Thanks again Ran for helping me to understand the hybrid thing. Russ

[Miracleman89]

In March 2006 I was surfing the net looking at different vehicles that were not sold here in the states. (I am a car guy and I was curious!) It was then that I came across the most unique and ingenious vehicle I had ever seen! They called it the Carver One! I was hooked after the first photo! Then I found the videos, WOW!!! I was so ready for them to come to the USA! Then I heard that they plan to only build them by hand and the price was way up there and out of reach for me! I was Crushed!!! I thought to myself, why can't this be affordable!!! I mean a small motor, only three wheels, only two seats! Why does it have to cost so much, why couldn't they go into mass production and make this vehicle affordable??? I had pretty much given up hope that I would ever own an amazing vehicle like this! I thought to myself , "Well there goes one more dream vehicle I will never own!"

Then in November 2006 I came across an article claiming that a California company named Venture Vehicles planed to mass produce a hybrid version of the Carver! It claimed that it would get an estimated 100 MPG at 100 MPH and the best part was that base price was going to be around $18,000! Well needless to say I was Stoked!!!! I began prowling the net for any and all information I could get on this miracle company named Venture Vehicles! After a month or so of finding absolutely nothing I had pretty much once again given up!

In February 2007 I ran across the Venture Vehicles Website, it had only been up and running for about a week. The site was great it talked about the performance numbers O-60 in about 5 seconds top speed of 120+MPH and still stated 100 MPG!WOOHOOO!!! I was, as they say in poker, "all in"! I learned that they planned to use in-wheel electric motors and really got excited, because I had just read about these in-wheel electric motors a few month before and thought then that it was the future of automotive technology! They really had me sold at this point! I saw the safety features and really thought, "Wow, this is gonna be the most amazing vehicle the world has ever seen!"

Since that time which now seems so long ago, a great many things have changed! I no longer see a company on the verge of building the most amazing vehicle the world has ever seen. I see a company falling short and rather then pushing harder to reach there amazing vision, they are looking for the easy way out and just put something on the road! Call me a dreamer, but I still believe VV can produce that amazing vehicle they originally envisioned! I believe that all this hoopla is nothing more then set backs and can still be overcome! I still believe that VV can hit their original projection of base price $18,000 or maybe even $20,000 thanks to the hefty increase on fuel prices and the US dollar value drop! Remember Thomas Edison found several ways how not to make a light bulb before he found one that would work! I guess my fears stem from the lack of communication and the fact that it appears that VV has lost it's vision!

I still want a VV! My resolve has not changed! At this point all I can say is, "For God's sake, Ian please let us know what is going on and not beat around the bush!" If this whole silence protocol is a marketing firm telling you to keep quite about updates and what's up behind the scenes, then they are causing more harm then good and you need to drop their butts like a bad habit!

Sincerely,
Brian Fields (aka. Miracleman89)

[rogwild]

Yeah,.... what MM89 said!

[RAN]

would the generator also send power to the motors to asist the battery(s) in powering the motors to spin the wheels? My only three complaints with the hybrid tech, is reliablity, longevity and those battery cells that can go bad, PLUS the disposal or recycling of them. It is new technology that will require some time to tweak it in and make it more cost effective to.


Russ, as far as I know, the generator would only supply power straight to the batteries. The latest batteries have pretty good power density to allow for high burst demands (like passing, or just confirming those 0-60 times thu:mbs:up:22)
Real performance designs usually add ultracapacitors, charged through regenerative braking, to add that quick burst of power without hitting the batteries with it. This can give you a few more miles driving range without sacrificing performance.

Real hybrids should have terrific reliability and longevity (which is why the big automakers have resisted making them). Electric motors last a long time with virtually no maintenance. The ICE for the genset is small, and only runs at it's optimal speed, and, if the hybrid has a 40-50 mile EV only range, then depending on your daily driving distance, you may only use the ICE genset for weekend trips, or for part of your daily commute. Most real (serial) hybrids don't have transmissions either.
Battery tech is improving all the time, and there are still electric RAV-4's that are several years old with 50,000 + miles on them running around with the original NiMH batteries in them.

The only thing holding us back is that, until someone starts mass producing real hybrids (not the convoluted parallel nightmares currently available), using the newer batteries now on the market, battery prices will remain high.

[Jack Willard]

If this whole silence protocal is a marketing firm telling you to keep quite about updates and what's up behind the scenes, then they are causing more harm then good and you need to drop their butts like a bad habit!

I agree. When I saw that VV had a forum at the FTR site and was talking to their prospective customers during the design phase of the VentureOne, and was apparently listening to what people wanted, I knew that I could get behind such a company. That kind of involvement and interaction with the customer base is absolute INNOVATION! Now THAT is the kind of company that I want to deal with.

There are SO MANY companies out there that treat their customers like so much crap. Think wireless telephone. "Customer NO SERVICE" is the most used term out there today! I want nothing whatsoever to do with those companies. As Clark Howard says: "fire them".

So, as long as VV continues to interact and LISTEN to the customer base (within reason of course), I'm IN. I will cut them some slack. I know how the design process works. I'm a designer. Adjustments have to made here and there as the design progresses. But don't lose site of the ball. And don't let go of those things that are important! Innovate. Make it work.

[Baja_Traveler]

Besides the cool factor, I really need the VV because of it's size. I have limited space in the garage - between kayaks, a work bench and a classic mustang there is very limited space to put anything else. A 4 foot wide vehicle that will get me up and back from work (120 miles round trip) everyday would be ideal. For me it's either the VV or the proposed VW 1 liter. But still - if both were available at the same time I'd take the Venture any day...

Whatever I end up with, I'm setting my lower limit at 60mpg. It seems that 2010 is the magic number the car companies are using for all these new high mileage vehicles, and whomever gets out there first is going to have a commanding lead in the market share. Right now I think Aptera is in the lead, and I would seriously consider it if it wern't for the width.

[AZEqualizer]

Original vision is a set of expectations.

Yes, when you found the Carver - you thought wow I want one of those (Just as a reminder here are the specs from the Carver site) Top speed of 115MPH, 0-62 in 8.2 Sec, 40MPG, no airbag, cramped back seat with legs straddling the driver's seat, no air conditioning, Manual transmission, somewhat spartan interior and an 'ashtray that can be used as a drink holder' but unique and way fun to drive because of their DVC tech. Full speed ahead ... until: not really importing them to the US, Hand built pushing them somewhere over the $50K point.

Now along comes Ian and crew and their dream of a Venture One and we get to give them input. We want it inexpensive so we can afford it but we also push for every gizmo that we have ever dreamed of in a vehicle or ever seen in a show-car or heard that someone somewhere had this thing for vehicles... whether it be Lambo doors and glow strips or a HUD with nav track and enough airbags to float this thing if it got dropped in the drink... plus racing fast with high tech batteries that allow for long range use before switching to the genset or no genset at all and a 150Mile range... and still be 18 grand.

Now let's just assume you never saw any of this development stuff and only saw your dashed hopes of the Carver One.

It is now 2010 and some company by Ian Bruce et al comes out with a vehicle looking much like the one on the front page of the 'flytheroad' site, http://flytheroad.com/images/Splash_8.jpgas tall and as long as a Mini Cooper and half as wide with 2 seats.... And even with what we and Ian might consider low end specs of 0-60 in 7.5 Seconds, 75 MPG, 100MPH, Safety cage design, Side impact beams, Optional AirBag, air-conditioning, more upscale interior with more room than a Carver One and this thing is a PHEV with a 20+ all electric range(adding to the pot of 75MPG) with regenerative braking for $25k ...Plus that DVC technology the Carver One has .... You have to ask yourself "How many people would be beating down the door to buy one of these and would one of them be you? "

Expectations and reality which is the killer?

[Derwin]

I want to be among the first to WELCOME you back to the club! wel;co;m;e101))

You were and ARE one of the founding members, and it is really great to see you back. 2thumb:up

I really do agree 100% with your sentiments. Sometimes we have to step back and look at reality, and see things as they really are. I know that I would DEFINATELY be on the purchase list if the Carver (as-is) was made available in the United States....well, if it were at an afordable price of $20K.

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

dr:ive1)Heck I would buy a bunch if they were $20... oh man you caught it before I could post.o:h"we"ll1

[Miracleman89]

Like I said my resolve has not changed! I still want a V1. I am just disappointed in the fact that it appears VV has lost it's vision. And for the record I would like scissor doors and a hud nav system but these are not my visions of this vehicle! 100mpg at 100mph and 0-60 in about 5 seconds top speed of 120+MPH. Now that is my dream and it was VV's dream as well but I think somewhere along the way they forgot that!

[Derwin]

Yeah....I meant 20K. Like you, and most of us, I just LOVE the concept. It's unlike anything that I've ever seen in a vehicle before. Sure, I think we ALL want all of the bells and whistles that Ian and the team have promised, but personally, I'd take a stripped-down V1 with a simple ICE. That would make me a happy man!

MM89..... How do we know that VV has "forgot" about their original vision? I have been reading a lot about this lately, and I don't understand it. Clue me in if you can.

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

Sometimes even the best dreams get shot down with the reality of the rubber meeting the road. Then again we still don't know what the final product will be. One surveys people to find out where the give is... Sometimes one has to make compromises for $$ or to get the job done... It also leads to some interesting discussions at times.

[AZEqualizer]

This was posted on Vvsite by Ian back in 2007-12-01 and I think it is worth repeating here.

The questions on the AutoPacific survey are (were) designed to help us better understand different perspectives and opinions from diverse groups of people -- whether it’s vehicle design, branding, what they like, what they don’t and why. Or other issues -- including things like performance tradeoffs or affordability.

What’s important for you to understand is that our goals for the vehicle and our company have not changed -- but as you know, we are all blazing some new, and unexplored trails. We continue to learn more and more each day, but as you might guess, there are no easy answers or simple solutions with something this unique. There are a lot of moving parts, with a lot of different partners.

[WarpedOne]

I'd gladly pay 30k USD for even plain old ICE version as long it is automatic, gets good milage (60+), is fairly agile (under 8 seconds, over 100mph) and not too complicated to repair (no special training needed, just common mechanical expertise, found in most workshops.

This would be twice better than Carver. Hack, I'd buy a Carver if I could get a hold of it. A little marketing and this thing will sell almost at any price/specs. Carver's problem is low low low production.

[Jack Willard]

Obama will also provide a $7,000 tax credit for the purchase of advanced technology vehicles as well as conversion tax credits.

THAT'S what I'm hoping for big time! Tell me that THAT wouldn't take a really big bite out of whatever the price tag will end up being on the VentureOne? no:wor:thy1


I'd gladly pay 30k USD

I would not pay $30K for ANY ground-hugging vehicle! Sorry, that just happens to be above my deal-breaker price.

Like I said: It's all about the excitement of the ride! But I could easily buy or build a FLYING vehicle for less than $30K. I did build one once and for only $2,500.

I don't want to turn anything into a political discussion. But it should be clear where my thoughts, beliefs and hopes are.

TAX CREDIT ... YES!

[Derwin]

Jack....

Don't hold your breath on that tax credit. No president, Obama, McCain, or anybody else can simply implement a tax credit. I'm sure you know that legislation must be drafted, then passed through congress BEFORE it reaches the presidents desk for signing. To be perfectly honest with you, I think no matter WHO is elected....Obama or McCain, there will be a great deal of attention paid to alternative energies and new vehicles like the V1. But I wouldn't really believe ANYTHING that any politician says at this point in the game!

Derwin

[Jack Willard]

I agree with you completely.

My fingers ARE crossed though. no:wor:thy1

[Mark Tomlinson]

While I agree no one should hold their breath and wait for campaign promises to come true, there is a ring of uh... 'truthiness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness)' to it.

Here's how I come by that judgment. Back when it was Hillary versus Obama, I was exploring the differences in their platforms. I'm in the IT industry, but work for a major health insurer and at one time spent a few years in our Government Contracts division. So, naturally, I was interested in their so-called "health care reform" positions. Hillary's was (in my opinion) basically pie-in-the-sky socialization of the payer system. While there were a number of very good points, it clearly would not stand a chance against lobbyests and most of Congress. Obama's suggestion was more of an expansion and reworking of existing services to cover uninsured and underinsured who can not obtain coverage elsewhere. Plenty of shortcomings there, but his plan would improve the system. More importantly, it does not threaten the existing system and therefor has a much higher likelyhood of passing.

More recently, the $7000 announcement was part of en entire plan where he mentioned he would soften his stance against off-shore drilling if that's what it takes to get an energy bill passed.

So I'm not advocating Obama over McCain. What I am saying is that if Obama becomes president there is a strong likelihood that a watered down version of his campaign promises could become reality. A $3500 tax credit maybe? Sure, I'll take it.

[Miracleman89]

Well all I can say is I messed up this year and forgot to save reciepts on some major things, But next year I am saving every single reciept for every single purchase even if it is just for a loaf of bread. That way what ever I can write off I will!

[AZEqualizer]

Thanks to everyone for the nice welcome back. th:c:oo:l:202
Not trying to hijack the thread but MM you might want to invest in a NeatReceipts (http://www.neatreceipts.com) Scanner system. It is a easy way to scan all of your receipts into your computer then you don't have to keep a mountain of paper and you organize it at the time so you don't go later on 'what the heck was this about?'

[Baja_Traveler]

Man - this is exactly what I need. I have a nasty habit of just tossing reciepts on the desk where they get lost or thrown out.

Of course for this to work, I'd actually have to sit down and scan them... u:n:s;ure;5(

[Derwin]

It looks like a fantastic product. But I always thought that you needed the ACTUAL receipt to prove that you purchased a certain item. I don't think a "copy" of a receipt is good enough for many things. I may be wrong about that, but this is what I always thought. Other than that, I think it's great to keep things organized....and I think we all can use help in organizing our lives here and there!

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

According to ruling Rev. Proc. 97-22, the IRS allows one to prepare, record, transfer, index, store, preserve, retrieve, and reproduce books and records by either electronically imaging hard copy documents to an electronic storage media, or transferring computerized books and records to an electronic storage media that allows them to be viewed or reproduced without using the original program.

[Miracleman89]

Hey, can't I do this using my current scanner and creating a pdf file of each receipt then using a folder system to organize the receipts, or do I have to purchase this system in order for it to be IRS approved? Because I never thought of scanning them into my computer! This is a most excellent idea! Please let me know! and thanks AZE!

[AZEqualizer]

Yes, you can use your scanner and make it a PDF file and that is fine but what makes this system nice is that it has a software database with it to track the receipts but allows you to run reports for different tax categories and do different searchs to find a receipt your looking for.

You can search around and I am sure find a deal on it. I got mine free with the last version of Quickbooks I bought at Costco. It is also tax delectable because you use it for tax preparation and record keeping.

[Jake]

As far as buying a V1. What are the limits of what I would purchase? Well, I rode Harleys for many years. That is about 20k and I don't know how much additional to modifications I made but probably considerable. I had a vehicle with no AC/heat, got about 40-45mpg, did 0-60 fairly well but I don't know how fast because I never timed it and I had done a number of upgrades to the engin. Comfort level . . . well if you have ridden on any bike in the cold/wet/heat/dust/bugs then you know how comfortable you can be. Fun factor high. So if there were options I might add them on but even in Fl I would still get one without AC, cup holders, music. 0-60 in 8 sec is fine and anything above 45mpg using reg would be fine. I can add most anything I want, if they catch on the aftermarket items will show up. Probably many items for cycles would work now. I can put my own stripes on or change the paint etc. Produce a basic machine with future upgrades made back compatible or aftermarket stuff available over time and you got a buyer. If the reason we can't see any glimer of a product completion date is because the company is trying to be all things to all people then maybe our jaunt into politics in this string was appropriate. Then again, I wouldn't buy a product from someone who couldn't help but spin the truth, lie, exagerate, and make decisions based on the most recent opinion pole.

[Jack Willard]

MM89 said:
Well all I can say is I messed up this year and forgot to save reciepts on some major things, But next year I am saving every single reciept for every single purchase even if it is just for a loaf of bread. That way what ever I can write off I will!

The saying is: "i before e except after c". Sorry, I can't help it. I'm one of those people. o:o:p:s12

There are plenty of things that you can write off if you have an understanding accountant/tax preparer, even if you're not actually supposed to. I've written off plenty.

My front projection TV (with a ten foot screen) is a computer monitor. It IS a monitor! No sweat. Heck, I wrote off my 50 foot articulating boom lift (for painting the house) as future rental income. I'm almost done painting the house exterior (4 YEARS now!) and I will be able to rent it out. And my new toy hauler is an "equipment trailer". No, the lift won't fit into it. But the ATV's will (or a V1).

Get creative. That's what being full time self-employed or having a side business is all about. Shoot, my old best friend used to bring home like $25K or so in cash after doing a show at the Oshkosh, WI or Lakeland, FL fly-ins. That and plenty more went into the back yard deck, built-in barbeque, hot tub, bar/shower house, kid's tree house, etc.

I just keep track of all my (now side) business income and expenses in a spreadsheet. Works just fine. Been doing it for 20 years now.

Like I keep saying:

It's all about the ride! dr:ive1)Have some fun along the way. =y:

[tugboatwilly]

Rule number one Jack.CYOA
You are probably not a CPA, therefore you gave us WAY TOO MUCH personal financial information. Trust me, the IRS is NOT on your side.

[SafetyMan]

Take it from past experience - You do not want to talk (type) about ways you have cut Uncle Sam out of his share of anything on a blog. They do read a lot of stuff and it can come back and bite you in the butt!!!
EVEN IF you may have just been spouting off a "wish I had done this." They can and will come at you for even bragging about something you think (or might have) did. The defense fees ran over 10,000 to get out from under the charge even though it was a bunch of Hooey!!!no:wor:thy1 Mia copa, mia magma copa Uncle Sam!!!!

[Jack Willard]

Liar, liar, pants on fire! I take it all back except for:

It's all about the ride! dr:ive1)

Sheesh no:wor:thy1