Is there any news at all?????

[Charles]

Hi All,

I'm getting really tired of scanning the Flytheroad and Flytheroadclub sites and seeing fewer and fewer postings and what is worse hearing less and less optimism from the people who are posting. MM89 who was always one of the most optimistic contributors sounds totally depressed and is more certain that the V1 will be vapourware. Has Ian officially stated that the updates will cease and that the reason for this is that the competition is getting too much confidential informationo:h"we"ll1? I for one still don't understand why the development process is taking so long. I know that other more experienced people has said that 2 - 3 years is typical to develop a new concept and I'm prepared to accept that answer if we were talking about a new vehicle but we're not. Okay, the V1 is slightly different from the Carver in size and propulsion but 80% of it has to be the same and so why reinvent the wheel? The only thing I can see as being a major problem is the propulsion system. Are we waiting for battery technology to advance enough to get an acceptable EV only range? In that case why bother with true EV operation? Can't they just have the ICE driving a generator connected directly to the electric motors:IDEA: which would be the power arrangement when the batteries are depleted anyway! Surely if you have the ICE running at the optimum economical speed this will offset the inefficiencies of the generator and we'd get a reasonable mpg? Okay, the ICE will run continuously but would this invalidate the agreement with Carver? If they just put a single battery in for the moment who cares if we just get 100 yards on EV only we'd still have a running vehicle which could be modified later.

Derwin, Can't you setup an alert to our e-mail addresses when something major is announced rather than us looking for something that is never there, an update!!!!!!!!!!

[danbucks]

Holy Mackerel - one question at a time, please! :-)
To explain the long development process [in vehicles] ... typically has everything to do with business, and has very little to do with whether the vehicle itself is "new" or not.
That is, the volume-production readiness of the parts chosen and the business contracts of the company (made, then broken, than back-stabbed, then modified, then etc.), safety checks, and etc. etc. outweigh any "new" vehicle design delay.
Any car fan can build a new car from scratch, and drive it around, in record time ... but that's just one car. Try making 50k of them at 20k a pop...

As for ICE only - multi-RPM ICE cannot hold a candle to the efficiency of a single-RPM ICE - an "electric buffer" + ICE is just fine though (that's not a generator). buffer = batteries, capacitor, etc.

[rogwild]

Any car fan can build a new car from scratch, and drive it around, in record time ... but that's just one car. Try making 50k of them at 20k a pop...


Perhaps, BUT Venture 'Vehicles' has yet to make even ONE car.....or even an ALPHA shell that runs!!!! Perhaps I should suggest a new name Venture 'Dreams', maybe VD would be an apt abbreviation. Can you guess that I am 'unhappy'?

[Derwin]

Derwin, Can't you setup an alert to our e-mail addresses when something major is announced rather than us looking for something that is never there, an update!!!!!!!!!!

Charles,

Hey, that's not a bad idea.....Actually, I think it is a FANTASTIC idea! con:gra:ts1

What I'm going to do is set-up a thread that members can subscribe to. We will ONLY post UPDATES to that thread. This way, as you said, people can find out whats been going on without having to wade through a bunch of other threads and posts.

no:wor:thy1 Thanks for the suggestion! 2thumb:up


Derwin

[RichDC]

Great idea Charles! Derwin - make it happen!

[Miracleman89]

Charles, I am sorry I have sounded so pessimistic about the V1 over the past few weeks. You see, I did not want the V1's performance numbers or fuel efficiency to fall from where they were. From the very beginning I felt with a vehicle with this kind of performance numbers, plus this kind of fuel efficiency and this much fun to drive would revolutionize the automotive world, especially at the price they originally announced! Since that time the projected performance has fallen, the projected fuel efficiency has fallen and the price has gone up! The only thing that hasn't changed thank God is the fun factor! I am worried that V1 will not be as revolutionary as I originally thought but I still have no doubt that this vehicle will be successful with these numbers. My hope was that Ian would see what you saw, my disappointment and say they have to do better. As you have said I have always tried to be optimistic and support V1 no matter what and if V1 saw that my reaction was this strong maybe it would shake them enough to work harder at hitting the projected numbers! Now I know I am not the great and powerful Oz, but I figured if a company saw one of their most staunch supporters has that negative reaction to future plans it would make them try to fix it! In the words of Twisted Sister We're Not Gonna take it" Stand up! Draw a line in the sand! Speak up! I hope by doing that we can still get the vehicle we all dream of!

[MVRacing]

Charles,
Excellent idea!!

[Jake]

Yup, I know that it takes a while to bring something like a car to production. Though, if you look at the kit plane community or even small subs they can produce hundreds and even thousands of units of a new design even with some pretty radical changes pretty quickly. Might not be a great example but when there is a working vehicle similar to what you are producing, at least other modes of transportation have proven it possible. Right now though I really don't expect to see a V1 for a couple of years minimum. Not because I think it's impossible to do it quicker but because of the current track record. Heck, forget about the vehicle, we don't even see e-mail updates when promised. Later this year when car prices drop (hopefully) I will plunk down the cash I had ready to purchase a V1 on a mini cooper. I still intend to buy a V1 when and if they are ever built (I'm on the sign-up list). If they could adjust the price a bit I would buy a carver now but to expensive. If the V1 was sold as a kit I would probably get one. But while I would wait if there was some offical news updates, it's hard to wait in a vacuum of information.

[Gary]

I have to say.... I'm pretty much in total agreement with what Jake wrote (above).

The only difference regarding my course of action is... I intend to purchase a Smart ForTwo versus the mini Cooper.

[danbucks]

VV is having trouble, there's no doubt about it.
Let's compare some industries:
1) Brand new computer turn around design + new graphics chips + new CPU:
: quick feet small companies : 6 months
: slow dinosaurs : 1.5 years
2) SpaceShipOne (now that's actual rocket science!):
: 3 years ... perhaps + 1+ years for design?
(perhaps not quite a fair comparison, since they aren't building 50k ... but at least it's "rocket science")

[PHEVadvocate]

I’m getting pretty depressed at the lack of updates too. I figured it was the new partners that shut down the information. I would think that true “Green” investors would want to be very open about something like this. Keeping quiet like this is more of a business "Greed" mindset instead of the "Green" one. I suspect that they had are having difficulties of some sort or like Tesla motors the orignal vision is gone.:(

[Derwin]

Well, I can let everybody know that I have attempted to contact Ian myself, with no positive results. It's pretty strange, though, since he would always respond to me when I would ask him for help in regards to our remote control project. But now there is nothing but dead silence. du:n:n:o(

Derwin

[Miracleman89]

It's a bit disconcerting isn't it?

[Derwin]

Well, MM89, that's why I have been spending a LARGE amount of time at the other forum http://flytheroadnow.com/modules/Jig/index.php

We are "FLYING THE ROAD" NOW on the V1 alternative.....The VogueOne! I'm having a BLAST driving it around town and taking it to various places. I can only get it to go just above 50 to 52 miles per hour, but it's still fun tilting down the road on that thing! And the most important part.....I DON'T HAVE TO WAIT!

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

With the amount of cut throat dealings in the x-prize and the vehicle industry I am surprised that they didn't cut the info off (and handcuffed Ian a while back) before this. (plus I am sure Ian is out beating the streets and clocking air-miles for funding, partners and suppliers)

The question is do you want this vehicle to be successful or do you just want one?
I will about guarantee that if say company X came out today with a vehicle similar to the VV most people would jump on it.. including all you guys. Ian's and VV's take is they don't want someone else to steal their ideas and sink their boat. (and don't tell me that no one else has DVC tech so they can't get it done.) Remember that "tilting three wheelers" that use the Angle the vehicle around a pivot relative to the axis of the two parallel wheels have been around for some time: 'for example, the "GM Lean Machine" dating from 1983, the "Carver" from Vandenbrink and various scooter-type vehicles from Honda, including the Honda Gyro / Honda Stream dating from 1984. There has been a BMW concept on this basis in the BMW Museum in Munich since 1991.
In addition there is an incredible number of DIY solutions and one-off builds, very small manufacturers, design studies, university projects and ideas from car manufacturers.'{this according to info on the Clever site}

So, if this is what it takes for VV to be successful and we have to be in the dark for a while ... so be it.

Ian will be back when he can

Our goal is to keep you informed in a timely manner, and continue to foster the debate and dialog on these pages -- while, at the same time, protecting our competitive edge in a world that's beginning to realize the many advantages of a vehicle like ours.

-- Ian

[waboom]

The question is do you want this vehicle to be successful or do you just want one?


Both, for me.

I'd admit, if a V1-type vehicle came out that met my needs, I'd consider getting it. But I'd also want to "reward" Ian & co. for not only having the vision to license this technology and build the V1, but also the guts to quit their day jobs and actually go out and DO IT. I really, earnestly, truly want this company to succeed.

If, in order for Venture Vehicles to be successful at this, they need to turn down (or off) the information spigot, I'm OK with that. The thing that irritates people is that Ian started off by saying "I'll tell you all about our progress", then never really got around to explicitly saying "We might have to go dark with regards to progress updates soon. Bear with us."

[Derwin]

The question is do you want this vehicle to be successful or do you just want one?


Ian will be back when he can

I think it has already been answered....YES! I think this is why we are all members of this club...because we really and truly DO want this vehicle. But I have to be honest with you, it doesn't really matter to me WHO comes out with the vehicle. I'm really not a Venture Vehicle fanatic just because I like the name or I love Ian or Howard or the people at the company. I am a fanatic of VV because of the vehicle they are coming out with, period. If Volkswagon announced tomorrow that they have designed a vehicle like this, and it would be in production and available to consumers by the end of this year, I WOULD BE ALL OVER IT. And Venture Vehicles would be a distant memory. The slogan for this club would then be changed to "Where Volkswagon ? Enthusiasts Gather".

That being said, though, I will give Ian and the team the benefit of any doubts. AZE, you are correct..... It is a cut-throat world, and they have to be careful about releasing information to the public. I believe this is what has happened now, and this is the reason for the radio silence. We just have to accept it and continue to follow the progress with whatever updates they happen to give us.

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

I see Ian as an eternal optimist ... He honestly thinks he is going to be able to release stuff 'any-second' now and gets delayed and over ruled.... ending up posting late to his plans or in this case not at all for sometime. Then he takes the responsibility on his shoulders and says "yep, I apologize here is what I have..." You can see this in how he first opened things up before the big restructure... and when he does get the time and go ahead he is on the site beating the bushes -yelling from the rooftops. And then they pull him in -He wants to share but he doesn't want to give away the cow, the farm and the county either. Timing is everything!

I am sure it is as frustrating for him as us... But when something is released we will be as blown away!


But I have to be honest with you, it doesn't really matter to me WHO comes out with the vehicle.-Derwin
Exactly and Ian and company knows this ... they want to be the ones and they got a up hill battle where a lot of other companies may be rethinking a lot of things as the $$$'s go flying away.

[CelticFlyer]

I've had my doubts about VentureVehicles over the past few months. That's largely the reason I accelerated my plans to buy a MINI. I just lost confidence. I remain cautiously optimistic, but life goes on, and I've got to address my transportation needs NOW, not down the road in some unforeseeable future.

I've even joked about potential names for the V1, which summoned up one pejorative worse than the next! :confused:

In the meanwhile, I'm planning on taking delivery on this puppy next week:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/my_mini-1.jpg

And here's where I spend most of my "virtual time"... http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149533

I go by the handle "AvidMINI" there. Fun, somewhat insane bunch of people! j:o"k'e)

[Derwin]

Celtic... I went to your site a few days ago when you sent me the link. I think it is really cool how you can track your vehicle coming across the ocean on that ship! It seems there are many others on the same ship as yours. Very neat! I am excited FOR you.

con:gra:ts1

Derwin

[Miracleman89]

News Flash!!!! The Wallenius Wilhelmsen has sunk just 12 miles off the coast and several Mini's have been swallowed by giant squid!!!!!! Mini Cooper has announced they will be contacting the owners of the mini's that sunk to inform them of their responsibility to pay for the removal of their Minis from the ocean floor and that this incident is not covered under warranty! Many Mini owners have already expressed their outrage! One owner claimed he is not driving a car that smells like fish and another said he isn't paying for a marine biologist to give a full check up to the giant squid that ate his car!

[RAN]

Glad to see someone else hasn't lost their smile :-{)]

Good one Brian!

[Jake]

You can say a lot without giving up the farm. You can say a little and not give up the farm.

Acutally, if a bigger reputable company came out with the V1 I would buy it. I anticipate a small company haveing a very hard time with long term support.

[CelticFlyer]

News Flash!!!! The Wallenius Wilhelmsen has sunk just 12 miles off the coast and several Mini's have been swallowed by giant squid!!!!!!

Too funny, MM! :LOL:

Actually, Wallenius Wilhelmsen is the name of the shipping company. "Aida" is the name of the ship. But I'm splitting hairs, I know. u:n:s;ure;5( j:o"k'e)

Thanks, Derwin. I'm getting stoked. Should be any day now that my MA (Motoring Advisor) will be calling me to come down and sign the adoption papers...

[Derwin]

Thanks, Derwin. I'm getting stoked. Should be any day now that my MA (Motoring Advisor) will be calling me to come down and sign the adoption papers...

Your signing Adoption papers? The way you are talking about this baby, I would think that you were actually giving birth to it! j:o"k'e) Just kidding!

I was just as excited as you are about my CanAm Spyder that I had on order. But now I can't get it because I put my funds in another direction. I was hoping I would be making the money back in time to get my Spyder that I had on order since last December, but it doesn't look lik that is going to happen.

Anyway, keep us updated.

Derwin

[Miracleman89]

Derwin I am so sorry to hear your news! I too was excited for you and I hope that you can find a way to solve your problem and get you can am!

[Derwin]

Yeah, I know it. It really is a HUGE disappointment for me. I had $10,000 to go toward it, but then I went and spent it on importing the VogueOne vehicles. I figured I would sell enough of them to get the money back, and then to pay for the Spyder, but it just is not happening. If I don't scratch-up $15,000 by September 30, I will lose my Spyder, along with the $1,000 deposit that I made on it. The dealer I bought it from is Lake Effect Powersports in Benton Harbor, Michigan, and they have been very good with me. It's just that I don't have the liquid funds to complete the transaction.

It was my fault for spending the money that I had put away for this purchase. I still think the VogueOne project I started is good, but I sure am bummed out about not being able to complete my Spyder purchase.

Anyway, I have a little over a month and a half yet, so anything can happen. Maybe a MIRACLE will happen and money will fall from heaven. I only say that "half" joking! I've seen miracles happen before, so I'm just hoping for another one.

Derwin

[Miracleman89]

Well brother give me time! I might have one for ya.

[Miracleman89]

Oh btw Celtic have you given you new baby a name or is your wife working on it??? LOL

[CelticFlyer]

Oh btw Celtic have you given you new baby a name or is your wife working on it??? LOL

Wife? Heck, I thought you knew me better than that! :LOL: I've been partnered to another man for 13 years, though. ;)

Nah, but people on the MINI forums all have names for their cars. On the MINI Owner's Lounge on the MINIUSA website, I chose "Sparky" while registering to use the site, only because they asked and I couldn't come up with anything better than that at the moment. I'm not sure about names for cars. I've always struggled with that. I hate it when people name their cars with human names; pet names seem more appropriate, if anything.

[Derwin]

I hate it when people name their cars with human names; pet names seem more appropriate, if anything.

LOL! That reminds me of some family history..... My grandfather named his German Shepard "Hitler" for some strange reason! No, he was not a Nazi! But I remember as a young boy hearing my grandfather say...."Come here, Hitler..." or "Go get it, Hitler..." I know...Strange, right?

Derwin

[cpaddock]

I had a German shepard named Moses! My friend had one named Buddha....

[Miracleman89]

Well I am one of those people that name my vehicles! My old mustang I used to call Shelly.
I figured it wasn't a Shelby so I would call her Shelly. The VW Cabriolet I called Helga because she had a wiring problem and was a constant pain in the Arse! My MR2 I haven't given a name to just yet because I want to wait until I have driven her a few times before I know what her name should be! Once I have then I will start looking at Japanese female names! Although I have considered Fumiko-meaning child of treasured beauty.

[Miracleman89]

My Mastiff is named Dozer! Because he is a bulldozer! He will knock over anything that isn't bolted down. Heck I have thought about hitching him to a plow and tilling my yard!

[CelticFlyer]

I did name my '05 Mustang GT "Lucky" because I considered myself lucky to get one as quickly as I did, when other Ford fanatics were having to wait for months to get theirs. They were scarce and in high demand when the new body style came out.

I'll never make the mistake of naming another car with an adjective, though. Lean times about nine months after taking delivery on my '05 GT forced me to sell the car! "Lucky's" luck had run out. Or maybe it was mine!

Here I am with "Lucky" in the Utah desert in August '05:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/Day6UtahMustangatSaltFlats3.jpg

[nvrblu]

I never name my cars, however, I did buy a car that was already named and the name stayed...

Doris -- 1965 VW Beetle. Doris was one of the best cars I ever had. It was ugly, faded, smelled like stale beer when I first bought it, and needed a lot of repairs.

I paid $400 and spent another $375 for parts to rebuild the front suspension, new brakes and wheel bearings all around, and other misc. stuff. I took it to a VW trained mechanic for new synchros in the transmission. When I went to pick it up, I accidentally got in the wrong car -- another '65 VW -- and started it up. My key worked in a different car ??? I noticed it was the wrong car before I drove off... the control labels were missing.

The previous owner put "Dyno" labels inside...

Das Smokendumpen -- ash tray
Der Drizzleflippen -- windshield wipers
Das Glimmerblinken -- turn signal
etc.

The headlights were dim. It wouldn't go over 65 mph..

I got 30 mpg. It would start at -10 degrees F. It had no problems driving off-road through the woods, etc.

I sold it for $200 to some very poor friends of my sister. They drove it from Missouri to Washington ... or was it Oregon.

[cpaddock]

When I was in High school back in '67 the only car I had to drive was my mom's red
Nash Metropolitan. It was the original sub-compact-but-NOT-a-sports car. She named
it "Lady Bug". Talk about a babe repellant! It was a Geek mobile before there were geeks!

[Miracleman89]

LMBO at cpaddock!!!

nvrblu- all I can say is, you said it was your best car! I have always been a firm believer in the fact that every car has a unique personality and if you treat that like a person with feelings, something happens! They tend to be the most reliable and funnest vehicles you will own! treat it like a mechanical device and you will see a difference!!! Every time I did something stupid like bang my head getting in my car and would cuss out Shelly for it, She broke down! It never failed! a friend of mine was even a witness to this phenomenon and laughed his arse off, telling me my car was possessed! I loved Shelly, she was a great car and it was heart wrenching to sell her!

[nvrblu]

I owned the VW -- Doris in post #36 above -- around 1974--1975. The couple I sold it to were headed to the northwest states... I think they were going to live in a commune up there. Maybe cpaddock knew them ;)

Speaking of past owned vehicles... I saw an orange Mustang with black racing stripes today... in Mesa... I wonder if it was the same one CelticFlyer used to own. I remember he posted a picture and mentioned he sold it to a girl in Mesa... I just couldn't find his post/pic to see if it really was the same car.

[CelticFlyer]

Speaking of past owned vehicles... I saw an orange Mustang with black racing stripes today... in Mesa... I wonder if it was the same one CelticFlyer used to own. I remember he posted a picture and mentioned he sold it to a girl in Mesa... I just couldn't find his post/pic to see if it really was the same car.

You mean this one? I sold it to a girl named Lauren in Mesa back in January.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/IMG_8326.jpg

Great stories guys, btw. 2thumb:up

[Jack Willard]

Okay CelticFlyer. I'm just curious what the connection to Mesa is. Were you visiting there? The reason I ask is that my mother and an old best friend just happen to live there.

BTW, you live near where I work in Elk Grove. :Beer:

[Miracleman89]

I swear I think I am the only person who lives in AZ that doesn't live in Mesa or at least a Phoenix suburb! LOL

[JoeU]

MM, make that 2. Tucson here

[CelticFlyer]

Okay CelticFlyer. I'm just curious what the connection to Mesa is. Were you visiting there? The reason I ask is that my mother and an old best friend just happen to live there.

BTW, you live near where I work in Elk Grove. :Beer:

I've never been to Mesa. Phoenix, yes, Mesa no. I advertised the car on Cars.com last November and a woman from Mesa called in December and that she and her husband were helping their daughter, Lauren find a car for when she starts college. I spoke with her briefly and didn't hear from her again until she called me back in January to arrange for her husband, a pilot for FedEx, to come see the car in person. A meeting was arranged, he saw the car, liked it and gave me a check. It was a pretty simple affair. He flew up to Sacramento International Airport, where I met him. I gave him a test drive and then, when he decided that he wanted it, gave me a cashier's check and we went to a local credit union to pay off my loan. Once done, he drove the car back to Mesa. I've never met the mother or Lauren for that matter, but I hear the girl is very sweet...and smart. She won a college scholarship, and her parents helped her get the car as a gift.

[nvrblu]

Did you remove your license plates? The car I saw was just like this one... and it had California plates.


You mean this one? I sold it to a girl named Lauren in Mesa back in January.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee299/GrabberOrange/IMG_8326.jpg

Great stories guys, btw. 2thumb:up

[Jack Willard]

I swear I think I am the only person who lives in AZ that doesn't live in Mesa or at least a Phoenix suburb! LOL

Yep...I looked you up on a map...pretty much middle of nowhere (the sticks (without the sticks)). LOL =y:

[Miracleman89]

Two and a half hours from the nearest BestBuy is still my only complaint about this area!!! Other then that, I love it! It is just beautiful out here!!!

[CelticFlyer]

Did you remove your license plates? The car I saw was just like this one... and it had California plates.

They drove it off with the CA plates on it, then sent me one of them back. I didn't need them, and I told them not to bother, but they returned one to me anyway. CA DMV said they didn't need them either! I'm not concerned, though. They signed a release form for me so I couldn't be held liable for anything.

Wonder why they're still using a CA tag. They've only got one. Arizona only requires one tag, don't they? If you saw the CA tag on the front, maybe they're using it as a "vanity" plate until they get a replacement and they're using their "legal" Arizona plate on the rear.

Hmmm... du:n:n:o(

[RAN]

Not to drag this thread kicking and screaming back on topic but no.... still no news...

[AZEqualizer]

Ian Bruce's you tube account has been suspended.ypslj:kes;7(

[CelticFlyer]

Not to drag this thread kicking and screaming back on topic but no.... still no news...

Indeed. This topic has wandered all over the map. o:o:p:s12

I guess nature abhors a vacuum; when there is no news, we make it up. Like Fox. (That should be good for stoking the fires, eh?) :LOL:

[RAN]

Fox. "Fair and Balanced BS." thu:mbs:up:22

[Derwin]

Could we say the same about CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC? Oh, and lets not forget about the ever so unbiased PBS! C'mon, fella's, let's be serious.

[RAN]

Yes, Derwin, you could. Which is why I gave up watching all of them decades ago.

[Derwin]

Thanks, RAN. I just wanted to make sure you guys were not singling out just one network. I think most any intelligent individual who does his homework will come to the conclusion that NONE of the networks give it to us straight. They all have a slant of some kind, and don't even report some things accurately, or at all in some cases.

Derwin

[ziggy951]

What?!?! You mean Keith Oberman dosent give an unbiased view in his broadcasts? What about Lou Dobbs? Katie Couric? omg my world is crashing down around me!

How could I have been so naive?!?!?!


r:o:f:l:2:2:1



Z

[CelticFlyer]

You're absolutely RIGHT, Derwin! I'd stick around, but Fox & Friends is coming on, and I need a fix of useless drivel and pseudo-news. :LOL:

Recommended viewing: "OUTFOXED: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism"

We don't have a prayer.

[Derwin]

Holy Crap, Celtic. You don't give up, do you?

If Rupert Murdock has a "war" on journalism, then what in hell has Ted Turner and all of his left wing buddies been doing over the past 25 years? Fox News comes along with a FRESH point of view, and now the big CNN feels threatened, as well they should.

I think we should all just relax about the news media being "left", "right", or completely useless (which is what they are so often!). All this leads to is a big political fight about "who is right" and "who is wrong" about any given issue. Nobody Wins. People have their different world views. I certainly may not agree with yours, and you surely may not agree with mine. So what? We don't have to agree! This is what makes America so great. I think people can be friends even though they may have differences of opinion on various issues. I just don't want politics to alienate anybody in this club. As I have stated several times in the past..... This club was just NOT created to discuss politics. We are here to fellowship around our mutual love of the vehicle that VV is trying to create.

Derwin

[rogwild]

Derwin's Cigar Lounge Talk about ANYTHING on your mind!du:n:n:o(

[Miracleman89]

Bill O is honest! isn't he????? LMAO!

[Derwin]

Rogwild..... o:o:p:s12 My bad! I forgot that we were in the Cigar Lounge! I'm glad that I have Rog to set me straight when he sees that I am going astray a bit!

But please remember the rules..... Everyone who enters MUST light up their favorite cigar, or they are not allowed in. This applies to EVERYBODY.

So, I apologize, Celtic, for part of my last post. Please feel free to discuss anything that you want, as long as it is clean! thu:mbs:up:22


MM89..... Do you actually watch O'Riley? In case you don't know, Bill O'Riley is NOT a republican. He has voted for democrats and republicans, and holds some views that the base of the republican party simply hates. See, this is the thing that drives me completely nuts! I always do RESEARCH on a person and his background before I question there credibility. I do not agree with many things that Bill O'Riley says, but I respect his right to hold the views he holds. On many things he is just way too liberal for me. On other things I happen to agree with him. But I would NEVER say that he "bends the truth" or lies. If I did say that, I would back it up with something substantial and irrefutable. Otherwise, it's just the same old game of believing what you want to believe. Nothing more, Nothing less.

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

No apologies necessary, Derwin. And no, I never give up. :LOL:

I'm not combative for the sake of being difficult. I don't argue for the thrill of getting a rise out of someone, but I like to offer a point of view that heretofore has not been offered. If I agreed with you every time and your point of view, you wouldn't have cause to jump down my throat. You'd nod and say, "yeah, brother" and go about your business. I wouldn't hear a peep from you. However, since my "world view" seems to be the polar opposite of yours, I often provoke an interesting reply.

Having opposing views enables spirited dialogue, and cyber sparring can be enlightening...for everyone!

Good times. So, is the Venture One on track?

[Derwin]

Celtic, You just proposed a view that I agree with!

Actually, if you knew my family history, you would know that I am exposed to EVERY world view imaginable, and every religious and political flavor you can think of!

I have a brother who is a Catholic Priest. Another brother who is a minister in the United Church of Christ. My father was a member of a baptist church for years. And I consider myself an "independent" Christian. Another words, I don't go by any denominational label such as Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, or anything else.

I have a cousin who is so far left, I think he would consider YOU a conservative! As I told you at an earlier time, my Uncle Bill was gay, and he was one of my closest friends when he was alive. I was brought up in a family of democrats. And I am always communicating with people that may hold a different point of view than myself. This not only has added flavor to my life, but it does indeed cause me to look at things from every point of view. And, in some cases, has caused me to change my own persepective on things.

So don't feel embarrassed about posting what you believe. Even if I don't agree with you, I'm sure there will be many that will. And, who knows, you may even sway me on an issue here or there!

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

That's cool. I appreciate the latitude. I hate having to edit myself. Naturally, I wouldn't post anything I think is crude or lewd or rude (yes, I know they all rhyme...that's why I said it!), not because I can't but because I respect you and the other posters here. Having served as a moderator on other forums, I'm aware of what does and doesn't fly on family-friendly boards. Still, there's always that one crackpot who's got to test your limits (like a child testing boundaries) by posting something such as a photo or a link to a site of questionable taste, or worse, makes an off-color, sexist, or racist remark!

Insofar as religion and politics go, I'm a free agent. I don't believe in God and I don't really believe either political party is nearly as interested in our well-being as they would have you believe. They're more like egomaniacs with an insatiable lust for power and money. So I guess this makes me an anarchistic atheist, if there is such a label. Honestly, I don't even know if I'd consider myself a "liberal" or a "conservative." Ask someone who professes to be one, and they can give you a concise, lucid description of what it means to be one or the other, but fail to acknowledge that we all want the same thing. We just have different ideas of how to attain mutually satisfactory goals.

In the end, it's all part of this curiously finite existence on a big, spinning wet ball, and it means about as much.

[Derwin]

So I guess this makes me an anarchistic atheist, if there is such a label..

Hmmm. Your going to be a rough one to bring over to the "right" side! j:o"k'e)

But, seriously, this club most likely contains members that hold every kind of belief (and non-belief!) that exists. And I think a certain "brilliance" comes from that.

All of us joining together to discuss an incredible company, and the incredible vehicle that they are attempting to bring to market. It's amazing that the club is coming upon its first anniversary, and nobody has really gotten into any serious blow-ups.....Even though we all come from such diverse backgrounds and belief systems. It's amazing, and it's one of the things that I am proudest most about this club. We have attempted to keep things somewhat civil, and most everybody has followed-along in this without any nudging. I think this is a very rare thing when it comes to internet forums!

So, I'm lighting-up a nice Macanudo Baron DeRothschild to celebrate such a brilliant and mature membership. con:gra:ts1

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

I'll drink to that. che:ers:1

[Miracleman89]

Derwin, I am sorry you thought I was refering to a the political aspect when I mentioned Bill O!! I was actually refering to the level of honesty he lacks!!! that man drives me nuts!!! not because of his politics but because he doesn't research stuff before hand. I have watched him make several gaffes when referencing historical events and finally decided I just couldn't bare to watch anymore! His lack of research into what he talks about is enough to ask yourself how anyone can call it news!

[Derwin]

MM89.... His show is not "NEWS". The Larry King show is not "NEWS". They are talk shows that give the appearence at times of being news. There is a difference between a true "journalist" and somebody who gives his opinion on things. Journalists are to report the news straight and without opinion. Bill O'Reily does not do that. He is not a journalist. But, in todays world, there are very few true journalists out there. Most everybody taints what they are saying with their own opinion. They either do it overtly, like O'Reily, or they do it covertly, in subtle ways, like many main stream journalists on the major networks. Dan Rather was supposed to be a straight newsman. A true journalist. We found out that he was not.

As to your attacks on Bill O'Reilly.... I agree... he and his staff have gotten things wrong a few times here or there. But they have always corrected it in future shows. This is no different than any major newspaper in America, or any other major network or newsmen that actually call themselves journalists. But for you to question his "honesty" is not right. How do you know that the man is not honest? Can you reach into his soul? If you truly believe that he is dishonest, then you would have to come to the same conclusion with Dan Rather, and ALL of the other newsmen and talk show hosts out there. You would be forced to do that if you are being HONEST with yourself.

There are a couple watch-groups out there that monitor all news shows, including shows like Bill O'Rielly. It may come as a surprise to you (and maybe not!) that all the major network news shows get stories wrong at times, including major newspapers across the country. Bill's "Factor" show has a better record than most major news organizations. This is a fact.

We can go back and foth about the conclusions that Bill O'Reilly comes to on various issues. That is another matter altogether. I disagree with his viewpoints many times, and I agree with them many times. This doesn't make me wrong and him right, or vise versa. Viewpoints and conclusions are something that we can honestly have differences about. Facts are facts. What conslusions we come to as a result of looking at the facts is what political discussion is all about.

I'm like RAN (sorry to tarnish your rep!) in that I think ALL of the major news organizations are corrupt and report the news with a slant. Editors of magazines and newspapers slant stories and even run stories based on their political bias. This is wrong. It is not journalism. But this is the world we live in. We just have to accept it and deal with it. I, for one, thank God for the internet. We can now get our news from so many direct sources without any spin, and then come to our own conclusions. We can do this without the filter of a biased news media.

I can go on and on, but I'll leave it there for now.

Derwin

[JoeU]

Derwin & Celtic, remember the Star Trek IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.=y: From and "old" trekkie! 2thumb:up

[MikeB]

So I guess this makes me an anarchistic atheist, if there is such a label.
There is such a label, and you aren't the only one that it applies do. thu:mbs:up:22


Honestly, I don't even know if I'd consider myself a "liberal" or a "conservative." Ask someone who professes to be one, and they can give you a concise, lucid description of what it means to be one or the other, but fail to acknowledge that we all want the same thing.

As far as I can tell, Liberals want to control your money with big government, Conservatives want to control your morals with big government.

[RAN]

As far as I can tell, Liberals want to control your money with big government, Conservatives want to control your morals with big government.

Amen brother!

[Derwin]

I second that Amen! (to a certain extent!)

Derwin

[CelticFlyer]

MikeB for president, please! "Independent," naturally. thu:mbs:up:22

[beeson]

Didn't Jesus say, when asked about taxes, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's" ?? This would make the Democrats good Christians.

On the other hand, controlling the thoughts, behavior, lives and souls of people through threats and oppression while the hierarchy lives the good life is also a very traditional religious practice. That would make the Republicans a good religious organization also.

Karl Marx got ONE thing right. "Religion is the opiate of the masses".

[Derwin]

Nobody's questioning "giving unto Caesar". It is the AMOUNT that we give that is highly debatable.



Derwin

[tugboatwilly]

As there seems to be nothing but polotics happening here as well and VD was just that, Dreams. I will probably wish you all well and try to something that i CAN have influence on.
Tugboatwilly Signing Off.

[Derwin]

TBW..... PLEASE stick around! There will be ABSOLUTELY NO PARTISAN POLITICS discussed on this forum from this point forward. I am sorry if the discussion offended you in any way, but you have nothing to worry about in the future. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN, I can assure you of that. ANY post containing ANYTHING in regards to partisan politics will be DELETED IMMEDIATELY.

We are here to discuss Venture Vehicles and those things related to alternative transportation.........ONLY.

I sincerely hope you change your mind, and decide to stay as an ACTIVE member.

Derwin

[Jack Willard]

I was so hoping that you would say that. =y: No more political fighting. Thank goodness.

[rogwild]

There will be ABSOLUTELY NO PARTISAN POLITICS discussed on this forum from this point forward.

Derwin

Does that include politics that is 'non-partisan'?:confused:

[Derwin]

Does that include politics that is 'non-partisan'?:confused:


Sorry if I wasn't CLEAR in my earlier posts..... This club was created as a gathering place for like-minded people to talk about ALL things related to Venture Vehicles and the project they are working on. We also get into discussions about other "alternative" vehicles. At times these discussions require talk about certain bills being passed, etc. that relate to alternative energy and cars. Although this contains a "taste" of politics, it is NOT PARTISON. We can discuss these issues without tearing apart a political party, democrat, republican, libertarian, or any other political group.

These discussions CAN take place in a NON-PARTISAN way. If people post ANYTHING that has the hint of partisanship to it, than that post will be deleted, and the person posting will be informed.

The reason for this new policy is to avoid bickering back and forth over which party is "better" on any given issue. We just don't want that kind of bantering back and forth in the club. We CAN argue over the merits of any given issue AS IT RELATES TO VV OR ALTERNATIVE ENERGY, but it must remain non partisan.

So, yes, we CAN talk about political issues that are relevant, but we want to remember to respect each other, and never bash another persons political party. This is what being "non-partisan" is all about. Working together and talking together without allowing party politics to get involved.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Derwin

[dalton478]

The site is down again at 3AM central time with a placeholder page. Looks like they are trying to post the update again. With any luck we may wake up in the morning to a new forum..

[mrvail]

Ok: I have a couple of Quotes. and yes i'm going off the track.

1. Money is the root of all evil!
( But everything we need and want in life Grows from that Root!)

2. The road to nowhere still leads to somewhere. Unknown....

Oh come on it really was'nt that bad.

mrvail

[Mark Tomlinson]

Twenty hours later and they are having an "Internal Server Error". However, the main site is still up. It makes me wonder if they've either (a) botched an upgrade to the forums or (b) decided to kill the forums and make it look like an accident.

Okay, option b is the conspiracy theorist coming out in me. More likely, the poor management of the site and forums in the past is indicative of a botched upgrade with no back-out plan. I want to gripe about it, but as long as the brain-trust at Venture is working on the V1 I'll get over it.

[Miracleman89]

Well the way I look at is, the main site is back up which means they are doing something! botched or not they are doing something! This shows that something is going on! And something is progress compared to the silence the last few months

[Hardtime11]

That is the way I look at MM89. They were doing some updates and working on it when it had some problems. Hopefully it is a good sign of good things to come.

[mrvail]

Ijust looked again forum still down 9/5/08 6:58pn Et.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Ijust looked again forum still down 9/5/08 6:58pn Et.
Hmm. I'm wondering, at this point, if they decided not to restore the old site but just proceed ahead with a new site. It seems inconceivable to me that they couldn't have restored in three days.

Time will tell.

[RAN]

I think it's pretty obvious they're not restoring the old site. I also think it's pretty obvious that they're not going to put up a new forum or blog site. They should just leave the main page up and remove the forum button.

Should they ever decide to say anything, they can do it here... there's a space reserved just for them. Or in the media.

As it stands now, I would not pay $30,000 for a V-1 that met the 100mph/100mpg/0-60 in 5 sec, nor would I pay $25,000 for one that only got 60-70mpg and did 0-60 in 7-8 sec (unless it had a battery-only range of at least 30-40 miles). There are going to be too many choices out there in the next 2-3 years, not to mention better batteries/ultracaps available for conversions.

The V-1 IS a niche vehicle (read: toy). I'd be lucky if I could run errands in it and get everything in 1 trip. I doubt that any woman I know is going to be happy being sequestered in the back of it for more than 10-20 minutes at a time (the back of my head is not my best side :-{)]. And a battery only range of 10-20 miles just isn't good enough.

This company has always been big on talk and nowhere on delivering. They dug their own hole by promising the moon and finding only green cheese to offer up. They are going to have to do a 180, and fast... because either the money will dry up and production will never begin, or there will be maybe 3 loyal followers left by the time it does, 2 of whom can't afford to buy one.

GM's "Mark of Excellence" finally caught up with them. A start-up company can't hope to succeed when their word is worthless. Right now, their word is all they have.

[MVRacing]

I think it's pretty obvious they're not restoring the old site. I also think it's pretty obvious that they're not going to put up a new forum or blog site. They should just leave the main page up and remove the forum button.

Should they ever decide to say anything, they can do it here... there's a space reserved just for them. Or in the media.


I think they should put a link to this site under the forum button.

[Miracleman89]

I like the way you think MVR!!!!!

[meckman1]

I think they should put a link to this site under the forum button.

While it would be nice for the hardcores, I think it could cause them legal problems due to hacking, lack of control etc. If they did that they should probably have Derwin truly spell out how unofficial this forum is.

[Derwin]

If they did that they should probably have Derwin truly spell out how unofficial this forum is.

I don't think Venture Vehicles will ever link to this club site for the reasons outlined in this thread. But, in answer to your comment, I have already spelled out VERY clearly how "unofficial" this forum is. In the HEADER of each page, I have a statement reading "A private initiative of Derwin Beushausen". Not only that, but on the MAIN page of this website, there is a greeting telling people that I am the "owner/operator".

As I said, this forum is indeed independent, and states so in the header of each page. I don't think we, or Venture Vehicles, has anything to worry about pertaining to that.

Derwin

[meckman1]

Derwin ,

Yes I understand that. My point is simply that from a business perspective VV needs to take every step possible to protect themselves. I bellieve you've done an excellent job w/ your forum, which is why I've stuck around. My concern, from a business perspective, would be to protect VV from petty lawsuits over things that may be said in the forum. After all this is an uncensored and open forum that they have no control over.

[meckman1]

Just to qualify, I'm not saying they shouldn't post a link. I'm saying they should post it clearly as an enthusist's link, and not as an official part of the VV website.

[Derwin]

I would suggest that they DO NOT post a link to this independent club site. But if they did, there would be absolutely no liability on their part. Many other auto enthusiasts websites are linked from dealer sites, and even from company sites. AS LONG AS THE INDEPENDENT SITE STATES THAT THEY ARE INDEPENDENT, then all is well. As I said, this is made clear on every page of the club site.

Derwin