Possible (theoretical) status of the VV website

[Necoras]

I just had a disturbing, and yet what seems to me likely, idea about why the forums are down. Do we even know that Ian's aware of them being down? It's been fairly well established that Ian rarely reads the forums. I'd guess that it's entirely possible that the hosting company screwed something up, got the main site back up and then thought they were off the hook. My guess is that Ian hasn't looked at the website since early July (last FAQ update is from July 1) and has no clue that the forums aren't up. He does seem to be fairly out of touch, both with the feelings of the people following the news, and his own media machine.

So how about it, someone want to call up Ian and record the phone conversation (legal in several states as long as you know it's being recorded, all if you tell the other person you're recording) and post it here as proof that he is/is not aware of the issues and the general sentiment about his company in general? It would solve a lot of bickering on these forums.

[Derwin]

I just had a disturbing, and yet what seems to me likely, idea about why the forums are down. Do we even know that Ian's aware of them being down? It's been fairly well established that Ian rarely reads the forums.....

How has that "been fairly well established"? Ian regularly read the company forum, but he rarely posts. I can say with 99.9% certainty that Ian does in fact know that the company forum is down.

If you ask WHY is it down, well, that is another question!

Derwin

[Lumberjack]

I can think of a lot of reasons why the forums went missing.

Ians busy and has not had the time to fix them.
A big money investor didnt like it and forced Ian to kill it.
Ian tried to change the forum software and it puked on him.
The forum software was overloaded with too many posts and Died.

We wont really know unless Ian tells us. Granted it would be nice if Ian sent us a note.....

Try a few of these...
:Beer:
and relax, it may be a while before we hear anything again.

[Necoras]

Ok, Ian's been shown to disappear from the forums for months at a time. Better phrasing?

My point was we all know that the forums are down, but there's been no obvious response from the company itself. I just sent an e-mail asking the nature of the problems. Any general response will do really. Honestly I'm expecting that I'll either get no response, or that the mail server will be down. We'll see I guess.

Also, I'm taking the beer advice to heart.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Ok, Ian's been shown to disappear from the forums for months at a time. Better phrasing?

My point was we all know that the forums are down, but there's been no obvious response from the company itself. I just sent an e-mail asking the nature of the problems. Any general response will do really. Honestly I'm expecting that I'll either get no response, or that the mail server will be down. We'll see I guess.

Also, I'm taking the beer advice to heart.
I'm betting you'll get the same response to your e-mail as I did. Nada. Zip.

Still, if everyone goes to the home page at http://www.flytheroad.com/ and uses the [Contact Us] button to (politely) ask "What's the deal?", maybe we can force a response.

[Necoras]

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree Mark. However, Derwin's solution has ever been "ask and ye shall receive." So, I'm asking, though I'm beginning to expect that none of us will receive information or a vehicle in the foreseeable future.

[waltbscott]

maybe this one is as good as that one. Better, even, since it's kept up to date.

[ppi]

From what i have seen in the past there i would not bring back the Forums and have been suprised how long it did last.

[Hardtime11]

I am sorry if I differ from others. I still believe in a company owned and supported forum. I am sorry if VV does not support it's own forum but I am still a firm believer in them. I have been heavily involved in a couple of forums in the past that that belonged to a company that was creating and further reinventing certain things. It went very well and the communications gave great insight. Maybe they were not as involved as a vehicle but they were in a market that heavily undercut and acquired knowledge from others/competition without remorse.

They still actively stayed in touch with their customers or prospective customers almost daily if not daily.

I like this forum also but there are major differences that I will not go into openly.

[Hardtime11]

From what i have seen in the past there i would not bring back the Forums and have been surprised how long it did last. That could be said about a lot of things. A lot of what you are talking about is from the absence of company participation which does indeed lead to speculation and other discussions. These can all escalate to heated arguments due to abscence of company participation or lack of information. If you truly watch posts in all forums there are problems everywhere.

[Necoras]

I agree hardtime; an interactive dialogue with the VV team would be ideal. However, what you are describing is not what we have seen. The VV forum has never really been what you could call 'supported' by the venture team. What we've seen here is similar to what happens to most projects that turn into vaporware. There is less and less news and then the lines of communication dry up completely. I'd still look at a V1 if it ever came out, but based on VV's performance I don't see that happening.

[Hardtime11]

At this point it would appear that I have to agree with you however when it first started there was ongoing conversations between some of the Old-Timers here and VV/Ian. Hopefully things will change but it is a matter of time and like the website that does not appear to be on their agenda. It has been well over a week since the site first had problems and now it is a week since they put something back up.

This is just a little bit of humor (at least to me) :->

In admin time 2-4 hours is max time for a site to be down and less than that for email. That gives a multiplication factor of at least 42X (down 7 days(24 hours), admin time max of 4 hours works at as follows 7x24/4=42x. So I have developed a new time equivalent to be used when referencing VV and it should relieve a lot of concerns:

42 times whatever time frame given and you should be good. Such as a "couple weeks", times 42 would equal 84 weeks. That would equal out to 1 year, 7 and 1/2 months roughly (approximately). There should be no problem with that. That means the commitment of most promises is still with in time lines. Of course as an admin that would mean a very long and stressful period of time. :-)

If you further think about it the original delivery time from start to finish was going to be about 1 and a half years and use my multiplier for reality it gets really interesting. 1.5x42=??. Well some of the young ones here might see it but at half a century I and many others here might be hurting. I plan on being alive but with driver's license might be a problem.

I thought that this could be looked at as a funny. I know I am!

[Snoopy]

I find it interesting that the last post that was made by anyone involved with V.V. was from one of the people at NGEN. Since that's the case, the idea the was mentioned that one of the investors had the forums removed may not be that far off. However, if that's the reason, most investors would be smart enough to make sure potential customers are notified in some way or another, even if it's just a "we've taken the forums down".

Also, the main site is still up. Everything on the main site is still up. The only thing that's down are the forums.

[Derwin]

Maybe I shouldn't say this, but Ian stated that they were "in the middle" of changing a lot of things. I forget the EXACT words that he used, but I got the impression that they were overhauling everything. This could mean a new company name, a final name for the vehicle, a new website, a new forum, and many other things. I just really do not know.

One thing that Ian assured me of, is that things are going "very well" and that good progress is being made. I guess we will have to wait and see what new things are coming.

Derwin

[Snoopy]

I'm not really too worried about it, especially considering how slow things were going with updates. It just looks weird when a site has an area that isn't functioning in some way.

It's cool that somebody's got some kind of contact with them though. It's just a shame they didn't get the Alpha photos up before the forums went down.

[bigbandjohn]

At least we still have a forum to discuss things that most people know about (i.e. HERE). That could be part of the reason fixing it isn't a priority, especially if they are in the middle of a major overall (new company name, etc.).

That, or they were sick of seeing "lack of update" complaints on their site (something investors DON'T like to see, back to what someone else said about them shutting it down).

Anyhow, I would rather see an "administrative note" rather than a server error when I click on the forums tab, even if it'll be weeks before it returns.

[CelticFlyer]

Or...

The company owerns are busy discussing the legal ramifications of squandering millions of dollars from investors and having (perish the thought) nothing to show for it but VAPORWARE.

Somebody prove me wrong. Please, I'm begging you! Turn my "ney" into "yeah!" :LOL:

Derwin, feel free to delete this post as you've done others.

[Derwin]

Celtic, You have a right to your opinion, and nobody here is going to step on that right. But I think I should remind you why people are members of this club.... This club is exclusively for "VENTURE VEHICLE ENTHUSIASTS". People are members because they are fans of the company, and of the incredible product they are working on. If you are no longer an "enthusiast" of the company, I completely understand. Things do indeed change, and so do people. But the reason for this clubs existence has NOT changed.

I would just suggest that if you want to trash the company, then please do so on another site. But if you want to interact with fellow enthusiasts, then this IS the place for you.

As of now, NOBODY but the company knows what is going on behind the scenes. I don't know, and you don't know. Forgive me for being an optimist in regards to the company, but this is what I am. If it is as you have suggested, then the reason for this clubs existence is no longer valid, and I guess we should just dissappear......Is this what you are suggesting?

By the way, I have not "deleted" anybodys posts, and yours will not be deleted either. The staff of this club decides when inappropriate posts get removed. Just thought you should know.

Derwin

[RAN]

People are members because they are fans of the company, and of the incredible product they are working on.

Derwin, the company hasn't given us much to be fans about lately, either here, on their own site, or in the media, so I'd say you were batting .500 on that statement :-{)]

I don't think there's anyone here who would turn down a test drive in a V-1 though.

[Derwin]

Hey, with a batting average of .500, I'd be a member of the baseball hall of fame! 2thumb:up

To be serious, though, this club really is about being an enthusiast of the company. I think people have forgotten about this lately, and need a friendly reminder.

Your correct in that Venture Vehicles has not told US anything about what is going on, and we really have nothing current to celebrate or be enthusiastic about. But why is this a problem? They will make public what they are doing eventually. I would just suggest that people step back and let them get this project completed without getting down on the company just because they are not sharing it with us.

But if I keep an average of .500, I'm a happy camper! thu:mbs:up:22

Derwin

[RAN]

Hey Derwin, what number ya want for your jersey? :-{)]

[jmeineck]

Hey, with a batting average of .500, I'd be a member of the baseball hall of fame! 2thumb:up

To be serious, though, this club really is about being an enthusiast of the company. I think people have forgotten about this lately, and need a friendly reminder.

Your correct in that Venture Vehicles has not told US anything about what is going on, and we really have nothing current to celebrate or be enthusiastic about. But why is this a problem? They will make public what they are doing eventually. I would just suggest that people step back and let them get this project completed without getting down on the company just because they are not sharing it with us.

But if I keep an average of .500, I'm a happy camper! thu:mbs:up:22

Derwin

I don't think anyone in this club is a venture vehicle the company enthusiast! We are enthusiast of V1 the vehicle and if some other company was to release a vehicle similar to this vehicle close to the same price most of us would go buy one tomorrow. It is possible to be frustrated with VV the company and Ian while still remaining an enthusiast of V1 the vehicle. We should be able to voice our displeasure with Ian and the company as long as it is not done in a vulgar way.

[Derwin]

I don't think anyone in this club is a venture vehicle the company enthusiast!

It's a mute point since there is no other company with the Carver technology doing what Venture Vehicles is doing. Again, this club is for Venture Vehicle enthusiasts. We sure can be upset about certain aspects of what Ian and the company has done or is doing, but when all is said and done, this club is for those that are rock-solid behind the company and project.


We should be able to voice our displeasure with Ian and the company as long as it is not done in a vulgar way.

I agree with you....up to a point. Recently there have been some that would post nothing but negative things about Venture Vehicle. This is something that we don't need. If all a person can do is sling mud at this company, than we don't need them participating. Let me emphasis again that this club is "For Veture Vehicle Enthusiasts" only. This club was created for this exclusive purpose and no other.

Now, as in any family, we will have disagreements about what the company does (or doesn't do!), and we can post our feelings in the appropriate forum/thread. But I see no point in allowing this club to be overwhelmed with negativity. This is the only thing that I am concerned about, and will try to avoid.

Derwin

[waboom]

(OK, if this isn't considered veering off topic, I don't know what is.)

Reading your post Derwin, I'm forcibly reminded of Donald Sutherland's character Oddball, a hippie WWII tank commander, in the movie "Kelly's Heroes". Throughout the movie Oddball has to deal with a tank crewman constantly worrying that a bridge they have to cross will be destroyed before they get there. "Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think that bridge will be there and it'll be there. It's a beautiful bridge and it's gonna be there."

For the humor impaired on this forum (both of you), I am not implying that Derwin is a hippie, a WWII tank commander, or Donald Sutherland. Apart from asking people not to spread negative vibes, the only similarity I've discovered between the character Oddball and Derwin is that Oddball chomps on a cigar, and I've heard tell Derwin has too (http://www.derwins.com/).

[OK, sharp left, and back on topic.]

I'm betting that when (not if, when) the FTR web site gets revamped it will include:


The selected V1 production name
The selected company name
New pictures & renderings of the V1
Either NO forum, or a forum with (gasp!) moderators.


My personal take on the web site updates is they are waiting for #'s 1 & 2 to be formalized before they update the site, so they'll do the update in one fell swoop, not piecemeal.

[Mark Tomlinson]

I'm with you on that Waboom. I may not approve of the forum being down and the site being abandoned right now, but I gotta believe they just gave up trying to fix it and went on to building a new one.

I also half suspect that they've hired the services of a different site developer / admin. The reason I think that is because the current admin seems to have given up on it. If my half-suspicion is true, I'd expect the current site to be down for the rest of the month.

[Derwin]

I'm betting that when (not if, when) the FTR web site gets revamped it will include:


The selected V1 production name
The selected company name
New pictures & renderings of the V1
Either NO forum, or a forum with (gasp!) moderators.
From your keyboard, to God's internet connection! I am also with you in the belief that we will be getting a major update containing most, if not all, of what you suggested.

By the way, I LOVE a good cigar! 2thumb:up

Derwin

[Thoughtnot]

In the lack of anything else to equate him to, it does amuse me to imagine Derwin as the cigar chompin', character Oddball. Superimposed, of course on his chosen Icon of the venerable Doc Emmet Brown!

However, as much as I like to imagine what Derwin really looks like (insert smiley here), I prefer to imagine that Waboom is correct as far as what we can expect to see in the near future from VV's website.

OK, their Forum has been down for a bit (depending on what you'd call a bit), but the link has not been removed from the main site. Removal of the link itself would have triggered more of a thought process for me that it was not to be reinstated.

It's not a lack of news from the company that gets to me. Personally, I rest fairly assured that as long as I've not heard/read specific news as to the dissolution of Venture Vehicles that work continues apace (despite the doomcrying of late due to lack of updates, and the eviction of a certain individual from the club). I can also rest fairly assured that if dissolution of the company were the case, the more diligent news hounds in this forum would find evidence of it, and we would all be duly informed.

Based on how much work has been put into it thus far, and the evidence thereof (pictures, videos, etc.) it would be more of a surprise to me if VV was not on the verge of a big announcement as to the success and progression of the project.

Maybe it's my innate optimism, or maybe that gas is almost 5 bucks a gallon now where I live, but I'm looking forward to good news...and some cool new pics! 2thumb:up

[jmeineck]

Derwin, I'm glad that we agree on all point made.

I'm not as optimist as the rest of you are. If the website comes back or not remains to be seen. I hope that it does.

[ziggy951]

I am not implying that Derwin is a hippie, a WWII tank commander, or Donald Sutherland.

No need to imply it..I have pics of him smoking a joint in the pilot seat in an Abrams tank back in 69'. But no he doesnt look like Mr Sutherland.



r:o:f:l:2:2:1

[Hardtime11]

No need to imply it..I have pics of him smoking a joint in the pilot seat in an Abrams tank back in 69'. But no he doesnt look like Mr Sutherland.
r:o:f:l:2:2:1
I want to see that picture. I bet it was photoshopped. :-)
Now as far as looking like Mr Sutherland? I do not know :-)

I know that has to be a big joke because you totally blew ito:o:p:s12
I was at Ft Hood in the late '70s when they were testing the M1 Abrams and before it was fully accepted by the US Army in 1980 (maybe an M60 or M48A5). I actually got to help aggressive maneuvers against them (Abrams) and actually drive one. I seriously doubt that they would of allowed a 2-3 year old in the "Driver's Seat.dr:ive1) He could not of had enough of a reach to do anything. Then the smoking a joint? Not Vietnam, quick way to get put out of service for whoever put him in the seat.

I am sorry I just had to pop that balloon, I loved the military.v:i:c:t;o;ry1)

[Derwin]

I think hardtime11 hit on something there. Since I was born in 1965, I think I was way too young to be in the military. And as far as smoking a joint...... I never inhaled! ;-)

Derwin

[Hardtime11]

Derwin,
What about looking like Donald Sutherland at one point or another in your life. :-)

[Miracleman89]

I don't even know what Big D looks like! I think when I do meet him that it's going to throw me off because he doesn't look like Doc Emmet Brown! r:o:f:l:2:2:1

[MVRacing]

I don't even know what Big D looks like! I think when I do meet him that it's going to throw me off because he doesn't look like Doc Emmet Brown! r:o:f:l:2:2:1


You mean to tell me that's not Derwin in the avatar ...r:o:f:l:2:2:1

no:p:i:c1

[cpaddock]

It's Alive! It's Alive! Just checked the FTR site and found an official notice that they
have experieced a server problem but are working on it and will soon be back with all
posts and threads intact. I was kind of hoping they would wipe the slate clean so that
newcomers wouldn't be faced with all the flames, doubt and criticism. Any way, somebody is at the wheel and even though progress seems "glacial", perhaps the term
has an accelerated connotation what with GW and all....
Curves Ahead!

[Derwin]

Here's the actual message:

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/dreamquestbiz/forum_error.jpg

[Mark Tomlinson]

Whoo hoo! An interuption in our service! I never thought I'd be so excited.

[MVRacing]

Big sigh ... glad to see some action. Now the wait continues=y:

[AZEqualizer]

I was kind of hoping they would wipe the slate clean so that newcomers wouldn't be faced with all the flames, doubt and criticism. ...
Curves Ahead!

Me too bud (except for the development bits). ... but don't worry the flamers and trolls would surely be burning up the town even if it was a clean forum.... with the redundant, ad nauseum, non constructive, criticism.

[Miracleman89]

I am just glad to see that some kind of action is being taken. When the site was down we saw many defect due to doubt. Some more regrettably then others, but activity has slowed and hopefully when VV forum is back and in full swing we will start to see more positive activity again. I look forward to the forum coming back online.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Hey, wait a minute! The second sentence in the OOOP (Out of Order Page), says, "This was caused by a changeover in our Internet hosting". Ha! I was right. They are abandoning the old service for a new one which might be more responsive.

[Miracleman89]

I can't wait!!!!!!!! hy:per1)

[westonlgray]

Well, I think this is a good sign. Hopefully they are bringing back a blog so that new people to the site can see just the updates from venture vehicles without having to weed through all the other comments, at least until after they understand the current status of the venture one.

[RAN]

Hopefully they are bringing back a blog so that new people to the site can see just the updates from venture vehicles without having to weed through all the other comments, at least until after they understand the current status of the venture one.

Whatever that is..... :confused:
Seriously, guys..... it took them over 2 weeks to put up a notice that the forum was down (yeah, we know), and you guys are doing hand-springs?

I'll admit... the 1st time Ian posted one of those "working hard, making great progress" fluffers, I came on and thanked him for it like everybody else, but it didn't take long to see that he didn't really say anything... and that they missed the next deadline of the moment.

If your girlfriend tells you she loves you.... but you can't reach her at home at night... ahem...

I would really love to see the V-1 come to market... whether I decide to buy one or not. I just have a low tolerance for BS. I can't let the dosage get too high.

[rosesj]

Hey, wait a minute! The second sentence in the OOOP (Out of Order Page), says, "This was caused by a changeover in our Internet hosting". Ha! I was right. They are abandoning the old service for a new one which might be more responsive.


Heh... Mark... the RESPONSIVENESS I seek is with the INFORMATION updates. I don't care if I have to deal with the site if there is actually something WORTH dealing with. dr:ive1)

[Mark Tomlinson]

Heh... Mark... the RESPONSIVENESS I seek is with the INFORMATION updates. I don't care if I have to deal with the site if there is actually something WORTH dealing with. dr:ive1)
Yeah, I gotta admit when I wrote that I was only referring to the care and feeding of the site itself; not VV's crappy PR. Small companies that want to focus on their core product (Venture Vehicles, for instance) normally don't host their own site and usually hire someone from the site hosting company to do the site design and upkeep. I doubt anyone who is employed by VV knows squat about designing and maintaining a site, which would explain why it is so infrequently updated and contains outdated and incorrect information. Waboom and I theorized earlier that when the site went down, the hosting company knew VV was going to pull out and elected to ignore it.

Now, Venture Vehicles' crappy Public Relations... well, that's another matter completely. Hopefully this change of hosting company indicates that Venture has become concerned about their public image.

[Hardtime11]

Now, Venture Vehicles' crappy Public Relations... well, that's another matter completely. Hopefully this change of hosting company indicates that Venture has become concerned about their public image.

The only problem is how long does it take to do a site even when on the back burners? They changed their host providers in August? If they are truly concerned?


I am not trying to be negative but with some knowledge of the actual time it normally takes it looks that way. At least they have a place holder for the Forums up for now and we can be a little more optimistic. It only took? :-)

It still falls within the time perimeters I am using (VV Timing (http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8082&postcount=13)) so I guess we are still good. v:i:c:t;o;ry1)

[rogwild]

The only problem is how long does it take to do a site even when on the back burners? They changed their host providers in August? If they are truly concerned?

Well to put the 'website Responsiveness' in perspective; when the forum first opened (1yr. 7mon. ago),I mentioned to Ian that the [HOME] link at the top left of the forum page was not working, and when the 'Pre-Registration' form was added (1+yr.), I told him that the [CANCEL] button did not close the registration window. After the third time I reminded him of the site problems, he replied; 'I thought it was fixed, I'll get "right on it" (over a year ago). Now the [HOME] link is no longer a problem (the entire forum is non-operational), but the Pre-Registration [CANCEL] button, STILL has not been 'fixed'. In my opinion it has to be 'incompetence' or 'complete indifference', either way, NOT a good view to project for an emerging company if they want to maintain Positive PR. Perhaps the 'new provider' will be different, but they still appear to be on 'Ian Time'.o:h"we"ll1
About as 'Positive' as I can be on this sore subject.du:n:n:o(

[danbucks]

I highly doubt this "interruption" is caused by a hosting company. Indirect and only loosely correlated, perhaps, but not by any stretch the direct cause.
I don't understand what it is about car companies:
1) They couldn't make a good commercial to save their lives. Well, maybe there's one out of a 1000, but I started fast-forwarding through every car commercial on-the-spot years ago, and every time I miss (by accident) ... watching these juvenile commercials is sort of like (or is?) watching a car wreck.
2) They don't quite get internet presence. Take VV, who puts a huge blatant orange button to forums on the top right of the home page (premier placement) ... yet the software behind it was just plain foo-bar'd ... and one could argue the legal ramifications aren't worth it either.
3) another internet example: this "new car" company recently mentioned... Dagna (digression: what a horrible name! "Honey ... you bought a Dag-nay? What's a dag-nay? [sic]") ... they were so intent on "revolution motors" ... but the domain was taken. Oops. So they use ".biz" for just this one part of the "multi-mode tech." melting pot of choices. I can't imagine *anyone* remembering from marketing PR that the URL is a .biz (one example)

[DavidBunin]

I'm busy digging out from a hurricane. Any chance somebody could send me an email when either Ian posts something (here, there, anywhere) or when the VV forum is back up again. Around here it's hard enough just to get electricity.

[Jarrett5150]

Ok then I WANT MY Vv I WANT MY Vv I want my Vv

nothing bad just my mindless rant as I bang my head into the wall throwing my 3 year old tantrum until I get what I want. I would hold my breath but as I learned by watching little screaming kids those who make no sound get ignored.

CHEERS ALL

[ManageThis]

Did I miss something Vv's forums are back up

[Mark Tomlinson]

Apparently they just came on-line! Albeit, a little flaky. Myself and someone named CrazyT just posted welcome back messages, and both appeared to be posted three hours ago.

I guess you can throw all my speculation about a new and improved site out the window. It's exactly the same forum, exactly as we left it weeks ago.

[Miracleman89]

I am glad to see it back! But I am disappointed that they didn't take the time to do a little house keeping and get rid of half of those darn sticky threads!