New vehicle: the Dagne

[timo2112]

Has anyone seen this .. revolutionmotors.biz

very interesting ! a lot like venture...=y:

[Baja_Traveler]

Looks very interesting (and familiar) I hope they do make it to market, but I'll bet the Carver tilt mechanism is a whole lot better.

Here (http://www.revolutionmotors.biz/revolution/) is a working link.

[MustardMan]

Very cool! I dug around on the site a bit, and they plan to offer an open-air version, without body panels, before the full production model is available. I'd love to have the open air version, and do my own custom body work. Talk about a one of a kind eye catcher.

[Miracleman89]

Looks cool, I will definately keep an eye on them! But after the fosh motors incident I will not be getting involved until I know it is legit!

[ppi]

Looks cool, I will definately keep an eye on them! But after the fosh motors incident I will not be getting involved until I know it is legit!wow looks like they have a proto running around, i need to start on my car.

[RAN]

MM, I didn't see any fetuses in the back seat :-{)]

Nice find Timo! Going to keep an eye on this one.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Wow, nice find. We've theorized about eventual V1 killers hitting the market, but this looks like the only one that actually can. They are located outside of Santa Barbara, just north of L.A., so I bet Ian and company know about them.

Checking out their "Contacts" page, you can see they have a full staff - including a PR Manager, something that I think might give them an edge. And their prototype looks more like what we expect the V1 Alpha to look like, so they may have a leg up there as well. On the other hand, they expect production in 2011 - so VV still is in the game.

Still, I expect there will be a big market for these vehicles and no single manufacturer will be able to meet demand. Twenty years from now it won't matter who made it first to market.

[MVRacing]

Looks interesting, thanks TIMO. I've registered for the blog, but still haven't gotten a password yet. Any one else care to share how long it took?

[ziggy951]

Two wheels up front...Fail!

FYI for those that are interested:
Werner, Ben
(805) 570-3518
bwerner@multimodetech.com

Eric Sandoz, CTO
(805) 705-4262
esandoz@multimodetech.com

MultiMode Technologies, LLC
PO Box 1290
Goleta, California 93116



Z

[Miracleman89]

Well I am not real sure I like the idea of joystick handling!

[ziggy951]

I will admit their numbers at least seem quite impressive. Damn good actually.

Electric Range:120 miles†
Hybrid Range:600 miles†
Top Speed: 120 mph
Fuel Economy:150 mpg†
0-60 mph in 5 seconds
†EPA combined city/hwy
Price: Under $20,000

They dont mention air conditioning or any other amenities though. So for a real commuter for anywhere but a perfectly temperate zone year round would be rather impossible. Not bad overall considering they began in Jan 2008 and then began testing in, eat your heart out Ian, June 2008.

Z

[timo2112]

I'm not sure about the joystick thing myself- I like to munch snacks on a long drive...
Don't know how that would work out , but I love the solar panel idea ! 2thumb:up
I hope Ian and co. go for something like that .
These guys have also entered in the X-prise race ...... it could be quite interesting.. fir:st:pl:ace))1

[RAN]

I expect there will be a big market for these vehicles and no single manufacturer will be able to meet demand. Twenty years from now it won't matter who made it first to market.

How true. Being first is a fleeting advantage.
I, too, am not sure how I would like the joystick (it would have to have cruise control for long trips), and test drives of both this and the V-1 would be needed to decide which configuration (1+2, or 2+1) I like best.
Ziggy, the Alé is 2+1, doesn't tilt, and can supposedly hit 1.7g on the skidpad. And the Dagne is AWD :-{)]

[RAN]

OK, guys, what type of engine is powering the genset? It can run on gas, ethanol, diesel and biodiesel. The only thing I know of that can run on all those fuels is a micro turbine like the Velozzi (http://www.velozzi.org/) is supposed to be using.

[waboom]

A joystick could be a good input device, as long as the input/feedback is designed correctly. (Harken back to the days of videogames in your youth, where some games were well-designed and the characters moved like they could read your mind, and other games had the characters jumping off cliffs while you thrashed the joystick yelling "no, no! To the LEFT!")

The performance numbers seem a bit pie-in-the-sky right now. Hopefully they won't be revised down too greatly as they get closer to ship date.

[RAN]

A joystick could be a good input device, as long as the input/feedback is designed correctly. (Harken back to the days of videogames in your youth, where some games were well-designed and the characters moved like they could read your mind, and other games had the characters jumping off cliffs while you thrashed the joystick yelling "no, no! To the LEFT!")

LOL! Good point.


The performance numbers seem a bit pie-in-the-sky right now. Hopefully they won't be revised down too greatly as they get closer to ship date.

Since they <ahem> already have a running prototype, they should have a better idea of those numbers, but, as always, they will probably slip some in the translation to a production model.

[mark84gti1]

This does look very good. Tlting wheels, all wheel drive, excellent stats. I just do NOT want the joystick, I can't imagine keeping one hand steady for that long, during driving. Never being able to switch driving hands, what a pain. Plus the learning curve to drive something like that, too many accidents would kill this vehicle. ( pardon the pun).

[Jack Willard]

Very interesting! The supposed specs are just what I had in mind. All wheel drive?! Way cool! cool:thu:mb1

2011 timeline... NO Under $20K... YES Joystick only control... NO WAY

Joystick is great for an airplane. Had one on mine. But a joystick cannot control acceleration and braking. Now that's just plain stupid IMO.

Well, certainly worth watching it unfold.

Great find!

[AZEqualizer]

Interesting ... but if it doesn't have AirConditioning in a enclosed vehicle... not for me I don't want to be parboiled. Not sure about a joystick ... it would have to be experienced to really tell. And what can burn all of the fuels mentioned for the Genset other than a turbine?

http://revmoto.ndic.com/revolution/images/DagneConcept.jpg

But I wish them the best of luck and it will be interesting to keep an eye on them. We need as many new concepts like these as people can reliably make.

[rogwild]

Seems like they are ALSO in the X-Prize:
http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/prize-details/loi-contenders#revolutionmotors

[ppi]

You know Zap just might beat everyone to the plate????

[cobraphx]

I like the V1 configuration more than this one, but I think it is also a big step in the right direction. I commute alone 99.99% of the time, and I'm dragging a 5 seat car around with me. If I can commute with only half of that car, I will reduce my impact on the environment (and save myself a bit of coin in the process).

But the established automakers want to split the car in half front to back and just take the middle out and giving me a tiny 2 seater side by side. The V1 and the Dagne are doing it the right way, splitting it lengthwise and giving me a narrow inline two seater that's much easier to maneuver. It really makes sense to me that if I have to drive in traffic, my commute will be so much more relaxing if my vehicle is half as wide as most other vehicles. Lanes will look huge, other drivers will have to wander nearly halfway across my lane to be a big worry. I'll be able to fit in parking spaces even when the jackass next to me can't bother to park inside the lines. And it will look cool while doing all of it.

I think this type of vehicle will really take some people by surprise at how fast they will sell if they can be priced right.

[RAN]

These guys are in So Cal. If a/c isn't standard, it's gotta be an option. In fact, to get all this for under $20k, I'd bet there's going to be a rather sizable options list.

[ziggy951]

I guess I should have read all of the information before being so rough on it. So let me get this straight. Taking info from www.multimodetech.com and www.revolutionmotors.biz, assuming they are the same company and not some sort of intradementional cooincidence.

AWD (3 wheels)
At least 40 miles full electric
Leans in corners quote"ccelerate and corner like a Porsche"
Two seat, tandem
Expected release of two seater 2011. Not interested in the open air version.
Prototype already done and in testing..what was it, like 6 months from idea to Beta, talk about being effecient and productive.
Joystick, wtf? For steering it may be workable but no way that will work for my acceleration or deceleration. Talk about a guaranteed double wrist, or thumbs at least, fracture in an accident. Or,what if your seat slips forward during hard braking. Does this mean that a 4-5 point harness and a helmet are required? Not that that would be a negative in my view.
Hybrid mode of quote:"four gallons of gas or biodiesel would provide a driving range of 600 miles"...Shabang!
Series Electric, Yay!
Under $20,000 USD

Weighing all that it supplies and all that I want...I would probably buy one of the first 100. I could figure out ways to add any of the options that arent yet listed or those that wont be offered considering the price point they are aiming for. I am interested in a more complete expected option list but I couldnt find one. Of course, they could be the next FOSH and we will find something about killing baby whales or depleting the Ozone next Monday cens:or:ed1



Z

[Mark Tomlinson]

I guess I should have read all of the information before being so rough on it. So let me get this straight. Taking info from www.multimodetech.com (http://www.multimodetech.com) and www.revolutionmotors.biz (http://www.revolutionmotors.biz), assuming they are the same company and not some sort of intradementional cooincidence.

MultiModeTech appears to be the parent company of RevolutionMotors. If you go to that star thing in the RevolutionMotors site, you can see some of their other endeavors.

[meckman1]

Looks interesting, thanks TIMO. I've registered for the blog, but still haven't gotten a password yet. Any one else care to share how long it took?

I got mine pretty much instantaneously.

[RAN]

Got mine at once too, and made a post already.

[cearlnot]

Got my password seconds after hitting enter. I now live directly between my two favorite vehicle companies. VV is less that 1 hour down the freeway into Los Angeles and Dagne is less than 1 hour up the freeway in Santa Barbara.
Dagne has a running prototype after 8 months and VV has a Carver, Carvers tilting system and a foam model after almost two years. With the difference is development time we may see the Dagne years before the V1.
I prefer two front wheels. If Dagne’s two front wheels can be worked out, they should eliminate braking and tire wear concerns I have with the VV.
Two great machines right in my back yard.
Earl

[timo2112]

I got my password within seconds , days ago ! and have read their blog.
I really like the solar panel idea for charging at home ! If this vehicle gets
600 mpg.... I'm in baby!!!!!! It looks fairly simple design also , hardly any maintenance ...
It may be a hard choice between venture and Dagne ..

du:n:n:o(

You're very lucky to live so close --- i'm in Utah... bummer.o:h"we"ll1

[RAN]

I don't think it gets 600mpg.... I think it can go 600 miles on a 4 gal tank, which is 135-150mpg, depending on how much EV only range it has and whether they figured that into their max range.

[timo2112]

YEAH YOU'RE RIGHT SORRY , I'M NOT A GOOD TYPER...
Still , 600 miles on 4 gals. of fuel.... that's awsome!!!!

[Derwin]

Wow! This thing looks really cool. I didn't realize that it also TILTS! Hmmm. Maybe Venture Vehicles WILL have something to worry about if they don't get their vehicle out soon. Anyway, I'm going to keep an eye on this company.

http://www.revolutionmotors.biz/revolution/images/prototype/Prototype1.jpg

[meckman1]

Agreed. This thing rocks. Gotta have the completed vehicle w/ body panels though. Also hoping that not listing a/c was an oversight.

[RAN]

I went back and re-read the specs. I thought it had more EV range... the EV range is 120 miles (nice!), which could mean hybrid mileage of 120mpg, which is still excellent!

Apparently, the Dagne uses 3 smaller motors - 1 for each wheel.

We're just going to have to cross our fingers on this one. None of the green rags seem to have picked up on it yet.

[Mark Tomlinson]

I wasn't going to say anything, but I can't help myself.

When I popped up the Revolution Motors "Contacts" page and saw pictures of the staff, I scanned them all looking for Ian! Seriously. Looking at the vehicle and how far along they are, it occurred to me that the "big news" Derwin can't share could be that Ian jumped ship!

Well, his face isn't there, so I can rest a little easier.

[waboom]

I wonder if the tilting mechanism is mechanical, like Carvers/V1, or electrical/computer controlled, like the Clever was?

[rogwild]

Here is a June, 'Home Town' article on the Dagne.
http://www.independent.com/news/2008/jun/12/dagne/

[TazmanianKoala]

Well, I'm still more familiar with the 1F2R design of the V1, that looks more natural. But this is also very interesting. Bookmarked the page, so I can easily retrieve it.

[waboom]

Here is a June, 'Home Town' article on the Dagne.
http://www.independent.com/news/2008/jun/12/dagne/

Guess that answers my question: article says the tilt is computer-controlled.

[RAN]

I didn't know that there are plans for making a movie of Atlas Shrugged, and Angelina Jolie will play Dagny Taggart (http://www.atlasthefilm.com/News.htm). Wonder if Brad Pitt will play Hank Rearden? :-{)]

Great find on that article Rog!

[rogwild]

This vehicle seems to hold a lot of promise. The 'Big Problems', as Vv has found out, is in the details, oh yeah, and getting Funding.
But they seem to be more 'doers' than 'publicity seekers', which may be a big plus (except maybe in finding 'backers').

The 2f1r design has the added benefit of better stopping power, and the 3-wheel drive should really help in the traction and performance. Definitely, a vehicle to 'watch'.

[RAN]

This vehicle seems to hold a lot of promise. The 'Big Problelms', as Vv has found out, is in the details, oh yeah, and getting Funding.
But they seem to be more 'doers' than 'publicity seekers', which may be a big plus (except maybe in finding 'backers').

They do certainly seem to be 'doers,' and I was thinking the same thing; if VV seems able to get funding with their track record, we can only hope that these guys can too.


The 2f1r design has the added benefit of better stopping power, and the 3-wheel drive should really help in the traction and performance. Definitely, a vehicle to 'watch'.

Yes. And even though more weight is up front on this one, with two wheels to handle traction and load, it may very well corner better than the 1F2R design of the V-1.

[Derwin]

They do certainly seem to be 'doers,' and I was thinking the same thing; if VV seems able to get funding with their track record, we can only hope that these guys can too.


It seems some are assuming that Venture Vehicles are not "doers", and not accomplishing anything and they do not have a good track record. I would suggest that they are indeed doers, and they are indeed accomplishing many things, albeit behind closed doors. My assumptions are just as valid as the guys who are assuming the opposite.

But whatever the case may be, I think this vehicle would be DIRECT competition to VV in that it tilts.......The tilting factor was the one aspect of the VV project that gave them to edge. Now it seems even that edge is gone. Whether it be 2 wheels in back, or 2 wheels in front..... If it leans in turns, I think it will be a hot selling vehicle.

I have a positive opinion about Venture Vehicles. Call me a eternal optimist! But I really do believe that they will get this thing done. I may certainly be wrong, and time will surely tell.

Derwin

[timo2112]

Hey I just went to revolution web site and found this on their blog...


Thank you to everyone who has contributed their input thus far - it’s very helpful and encouraging for us. As expected, the joystick is the most controversial aspect of Dagne’s design, as it was for us! We debated intensely whether people would accept something so different from the standard vehicle interface. Once we started test driving the prototype however, our doubts have been mostly relieved - the joystick really is intuitive, and it’s a lot of fun! Will we offer a steering wheel option? We’ve talked about it, but it would require a strong voice from our customers asking for it. We really believe in the improvements to safety and comfort that the joystick provides. Oh, and yes, the joystick is repositionable, so you can drive it with either hand.

[RAN]

Derwin, no one knows what VV is doing, but the article that Rog posted on the Dagne was from June 12.

They had their prototype running then.

I think it's pretty safe to say that VV did not... and there's no information that it's running today either (today's the day I picked in the poll... oh well... it was my father's birthday... worth a shot :-{)]).

You may be proven right in the end... but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Derwin]

I think it's pretty safe to say that VV did not... and there's no information that it's running today either....

Why is it "pretty safe to say" that they do not have it running? Do you have any "inside" information? If you do, please share it with us. But to the best of MY knowledge, we simply don't know. Period.


You may be proven right in the end... but I'll believe it when I see it.

And YOU may be proven right when the dust settles. The point is, neither one of us knows for sure. They may have reached several goals in the developement of the vehicle, and are simply not making it public. Then again, they may have not done a thing (highly unlikely in my opinion). Either way, we will all find out at some future point, at which time I will believe it also.

Derwin

[RAN]

Why is it "pretty safe to say" that they do not have it running? Do you have any "inside" information? If you do, please share it with us. But to the best of MY knowledge, we simply don't know. Period.

I said that it was pretty safe to say they didn't have the Alpha running on June 12, when the 1st article on the Dagne was published, and there is no information that it's running today either.

[Derwin]

RAN,

I understood what you were saying, but I still don't know why you think it is "safe" to say that it was not "running" in June, and that it is not running now. I guess I may be in an argumentative mood right now, I don't know. On the flip side of what you said, I could say that it is "safe" to say that they do indeed have it up and running now, and I would base it on the hints given me by Ian. Do I know it for a "fact"? Of course not. You are obviously basing your assumption on the lack of information coming from the company, which is one way to look at it. But the bottom line is that you and I simply don't know what they have done over that past several months. We really don't.

Derwin

[RAN]

It's safe to say Derwin, because they were still talking to us at that time, and I can guarantee you that if the Alpha was built and had run successfully on June 12, Ian would have been shouting it at the top of his lungs.

I did not say that it's "safe to say" it's not running today... I said there's no information that it's running today although the same logic applies.

It's obvious that, despite your protestations, you have blind faith in Ian and VV. That's certainly your prerogative, but it doesn't give you much of a platform on which to continue an argument. Not that I'm looking to have one.

[Derwin]

RAN,

I not only do NOT have "blind" faith in Ian, I do not have ANY faith in Ian whatsoever, and my comments never implied that I did. Simply saying that we do not have the information to make conclusions is not having "faith" in Ian. It is saying just that..... We do not have the information. I really don't know what's so difficult for people to understand about that.

By the way, if Venture Vehicles got this thing up and running, and everything was a success, how do you know that he would be "shouting it at the top of his lungs"? How do you know that the investors did not put a lid on this, and that is the reason for the silence?

I mean, let's be serious here. We can draw a bunch of conclusions, but they will all be based on a lack of information, which really makes them weak at best, and completely wrong at worst. This goes for your conslusions, as well as mine.

All I am trying to say is that we don't know. To say that I have "blind faith" in Ian is, frankly, insulting, and is completely wrong at it's core. Nowhere have I expressed any kind of "faith" in Ian or Venture Vehicles. All I have expressed is my enthusiastic support....that is all.

Like I said, I have no idea what is going on at the company, and neither do you. Is that a statement of "faith", RAN? I didn't think so.

Derwin

[rogwild]

why you think it is "safe" to say that it was not "running" in June

Well for one thing, we would have to assume that if the ALPHA prototype was running on 12 June, then Vv would have had to 'disassemble' it to make the video of just the Power Pod actually running to post in July,......or Ian just found an 'old video' laying around from before the ALPHA was assembled and running,......or, they have a second complete Power Pod that they are still 'working' on. I would have to say that although the latter are 'possible', I would think from an economics and publicity view, they are not too 'probable'.

[Miracleman89]

I believe that at this point the Alpha is built and operational.

Here is my opinion: I noticed something, when VV got financing and had two people from NGEN partners join Howard and Ian on the board, Communication went south. Ian wasn't posting info that often. He all but disappeared on the boards. The last time I mentioned this in a thread is when Steve from NGEN made his post like a day later. Shortly after that is when VV official forum went down. It is my opinion that Steve and his buddies at NGEN are screwing things up! Unfortunately, They have the money, So Ian and Howard are pretty much forced to keep their mouths shut!

If you ask me, Ian and Howard should ditch the two stiffs and seek different financing!

[Derwin]

Or maybe, rogwild, Ian simply decided to release the pod video from an earlier time because he wanted to allow us to get an inside view of what they did. But then, as you know, he pulled it, and asked me to not post it at this club.

Your conclusion is certainly feasible, but others are also feasible, and just as likely. You, along with some others, choose to take the negative interpretation of what has been going on, and I simply do not choose to do that. Are you correct? Am I correct? We don't know yet. But whether you put a negative spin or a positive spin on the situation, nobody knows for certain. WE ARE ALL GUESSING. Don't tell me that YOUR guess is better than my guess. Good grief, fella's, give other people's point of view a little respect, even if you don't agree with it. Especially since we don't know anything at this point.

Your entitled to your opinion about Venture Vehicles and Ian. And, again, you may be proven 100% correct. But why not take a positive position on things, and just wait and see. It sure don't cost you anything to be positive! And what is accomplished by being negative? If they are doing good, and they get the vehicle on the road, we will all be happy. And if they completely failed, then I guess we will all be upset. But NOW is not the time to get upset. There will be plenty of time later.....When we actually know something!

By the way, MM89..... I feel the same way as you as far as the NGEN partners are concerned. They very well could have put a lid on things. Oh, well. It's fine with me. Why is it SO IMPORTANT that they let us know what is happening every step of the way? And if they don't, well.....Then the entire project must be in danger of collapsing! NOT! But this is the attitude of so many, and it amazes me.

That's it. I better stop.

Derwin

[Mark Tomlinson]

(Trying to bring this back on topic).

One of the things I think we should ask ourselves regarding "prototypes" is one of semantics. Ian had a drive train mule many months ago - remember the sandrail videos? He has referred to the Carver as his prototype. While I mentioned that Revolution Motors appears further along, I have rethought that. Ian's drive train works and the tilting mechanism is proven, so Venture may be arguably further along. We don't know how much work needs to be done on the Dange drive train and tilting mechanism yet before they are ready to put it in a real vehicle.

The disagreement about whether Venture's alpha may be running versus Revolution's prototype that is running made me realize that the two companies are taking different paths. A prototype just proves that the concept works. By that measure, Venture is much further along.

Still, I wish them both all the best. I want to see both on the market so we have a choice instead of a waiting list.

[Derwin]

Mark....

You've spoken true words of wisdom, and common sense. Thanks for the input! 2thumb:up

Derwin

[RAN]

I don't see that at all Mark. Just because they got the drivetrain to work in a sandrail doesn't mean it will all fit and function in a much smaller power pod.

Revolution motors prototype works in the Dagne frame. So does the tilt mechanism. They may still need some tweaking, but they function in the area they need to be in.

[Derwin]

I think I am going to abstane from posting to this club site anymore. I see no point in arguing about whether or not Venture Vehicles or Ian is still operating.

I'll leave the club for you guys to take care of from this point on....RAN, Mark, and other admins. You will not see me posting to this site again until I hear from Ian. I just don't want to get sucked into this anti Venture Vehicle stuff anymore.

So, take care of the place while I'm gone. Hopefully (if Ian calls me) it won't be long.

Derwin

[Mark Tomlinson]

Don't worry, Derwin. Now we're arguing about who's further along.

Ran, just because Revolution has something running in a prototype that is shaped like the finished product, doesn't mean they are anywhere near having the bugs worked out of the tilting mechanism or have selected motor or generator suppliers yet. That's what "prototype" means. Venture has confirmed that the drive train in the sandrail is the drive train they will use in the Venture One, and has provided drawings that confirm it.

Most of the negative stuff we hear about Venture is in regards to what we don't know. I sumbit we know a lot more about where Venture is in the process than Revolution. With Venture, we're finding fault with how far the windows will go down. We don't even know if Revolution has thought about windows yet.

Still, I'm going to drop it and "agree to disagree". Time will tell.

[RAN]

Mark, I agree that Revolution just popped up on the screen, and there is much more to know about them and their project. While 1st impressions are good, I also agree time will tell a better story.

[rogwild]

Or maybe, rogwild, Ian simply decided to release the pod video from an earlier time Exactly one of the 'possibilities' that I posted; ??probable??, depends who is looking at it.

If we are going to use the 'Common Sense' defense in our discussions, perhaps it is prudent to get the facts correct before drawing 'conclusions'.
when VV got financing and had two people from NGEN partners join Howard and Ian on the board, Communication went south......Shortly after that is when VV official forum went down. It is my opinion that Steve and his buddies at NGEN are screwing things up!
According to the Vv press release of 21 Aug 2007 NGEN has been members of the board, through the entire 'design selection', sandrail disclosure, and X-Prize unveiling, not just the recent 'Black Hole'.
http://www.ngenpartners.com/Files/Press%20Releases/Vv_PR_082107.pdf


A prototype just proves that the concept works. We all know that Caver's DVC works, that 1F2R vehicle works, and that a Series Hybrid works; So then Why even build a Prototype? Simple, to make sure all the 'components' work well Together!

Over the last year and a half, I have cautioned Ian that to maintain his credibility he should refrain from making statements and 'promises' that he does not intend, nor is able to keep. Perhaps that should apply here;

You will not see me posting to this site again until I hear from Ian.
Perhaps Ian will respond, SOON, or.....http://images.elfwood.com/art/f/a/faithsmum/flying_pig.jpg.rZd.32627.jpg

[MVRacing]

Looks interesting, thanks TIMO. I've registered for the blog, but still haven't gotten a password yet. Any one else care to share how long it took?


Bump

[rogwild]

Got my password, by the time I opened my 'email' box. Perhaps yours went into the 'spam' or 'trash' bin. Try again.
If it says you are already 'registered', just use another name, to register. You can't change THAT, but you can change your 'screen name' to "MVRacing" in your profile after you login.

[danbucks]

No mail here either - and probably will never arrive. Most likely, their server is broken, or, if others have recently received notification, their server refuses to send to specific mail servers (e.g. those without a Verisign certificate). The mail is not in spam or trash, or even in the mail log.

[RAN]

I used a yahoo address for mine, and got it right away.

[ppi]

hmmm like i said Zap might be the one to pull the Hat trick????
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/09/15/alias-invited-to-zaps-kentucky-plant-groundbreaking/

[timo2112]

I just went to Dagne website blog and found this..... some answers to your questions !




We have received lots of specific questions recently about Dagne. We will try and answer most of them here:

1 - Tire Wear: Dagne’s tires are motorcycle stock, which tend to wear faster than car tires. We will address this issue by offering tires with a range of handling vs. endurance. The net cost-of-ownership for Dagne, including tire replacement and batteries is substantially less than a typical car, particularly because Dagne will last much longer than a typical car without significant servicing, due to the low-wear characteristic of the electric drive system, and the low recharging/refueling cost.

2 - Joystick Features: Finger control on the joystick will incorporate turn signals, head lights, wipers/washer, and cruise control ON/OFF. The joystick nominal position can be easily adjusted while driving (allowing use of either hand).

3 - Joystick legal issues: There is currently no FMVSS regulation that prevents the use of a joystick in vehicles, neither is there regulation that specifically allows it (except for disabled drivers). Although there is no roadblock for the joystick presently, we in the early stages of lobbying for legislation that specifically allows joysticks in vehicles, based on the safety improvements it provides.

Thank you again for all the contributions, comments, and questions. We look forward to hearing more from you.

[Jake]

To me this new vehicle looks like it has potential. I like the two wheels in the front better actually although it's not a big issue for me. I tend to think that if there were new and significant updates to the VV process we would probably know. Secrets are hard to keep and letting people know that progress is being made, even if you can't detail the progress, helps promote loyalty. If I have been following a vehicle for a year and 3 months prior to it coming out another vehicle pops up that I have no history or invested time in, I will wait for what I have learned to trust. Silence only produces doubt which is pretty obvious. VV may be keeping a secret but there is so much you can say while keeping sensitive information hidden. To keep a total info blackout on production usually means its being built for the military. As far as the joystick goes I am open to giving it a shot. I have flown a helo with basically two joysticks and it is easy. Sort of just point in the direction you want to go. Electric motors can really get up and move. No real soft spot or power ban, they can pull strong throughout. All wheel drive is another really good idea. Looking forward to what starts selling.

[ziggy951]

The two wheels up front coupled with 3-wheel drive makes me want it even more as it would be "more stable" in mixed conditions like icy patched roads and gravel. There would be far more control in many different road conditions than with the single wheel up front. I must say though that I am much more fond of the look of the single wheel up front models. This probably wouldnt matter to most people as this would not be their only mode of transportation, but I love driving on snowy and icy roads and quite frankly I want to test out how these vehicles will do on such terrain. Call me crazy....my wife always does.

It seems that it may even be possible to put some sort of chain on all three tires, so that coupled with traction control, it would really be possible to drive these things year round.





Z

[danbucks]

The two wheels up front coupled with 3-wheel drive makes me want it even more as it would be "more stable" in mixed conditions like icy patched roads and gravel. There would be far more control in many different road conditions than with the single wheel up front.

why is that? Most of the well-detailed posts on 3 wheel leaning designs on ftr give convincing arguments why 3 fwd vs. 3 reverse is a toss-up (pros and cons on each in terms of stability)
3 wheel trikes which don't lean cannot be included in this study - it's a different beast. There, the pros and cons are more lopsided.
awd : that will help, regardless.

[rogwild]

One thing that I am interested in (perhaps a little concerned) is how they will handle the 'Front End' design. The 'non-tilting' ZAP Alias has a fair looking 2-front design but does not have to worry about the TILT. Since the DAGNE has shown no front views yet, I guess this is an 'undecided' area that they are putting a lot of 'thought' into. Tilting +/- 45* can pose some interesting 'challenges' to get the front wheels/body to work together and NOT look like a weird 'contraption'.

[RAN]

One thing that I am interested in (perhaps a little concerned) is how they will handle the 'Front End' design. The 'non-tilting' ZAP Alias has an fair looking 2-front design but does not have to worry about the TILT. Since the DAGNE has shown no front views yet, I guess this is an 'undecided' area that they are putting a lot of 'thought' into. Tilting +/- 45* can pose some interesting 'challenges' to get the front wheels/body to work together and NOT look like a weird 'contraption'.

While I'd rather it didn't look "retarded" leaning into corners, I'm sure it won't matter much from the cockpit :-{)]

Judging from the way the rest of it looks, I think these guys will do their best to make the front end look right.

[Jake]

I don't know for sure but my gut sort of tells me that two wheels in the front that tilt just seems better than two wheels in the back that don't. When you lean the VV the two in the back stay upright. I don't know if it makes a difference but when you lean on this vehicle all three wheels are in line. There are already scooters that have two in the front and all three lean and that works very well.

[shooter]

I don't know for sure but my gut sort of tells me that two wheels in the front that tilt just seems better than two wheels in the back that don't. When you lean the VV the two in the back stay upright. I don't know if it makes a difference but when you lean on this vehicle all three wheels are in line. There are already scooters that have two in the front and all three lean and that works very well.


On the Carver, the rear wheels steer when the body is leaning. That makes a big difference.

[Hardtime11]

On the Carver, the rear wheels steer when the body is leaning. That makes a big difference.

Actually this was already discussed in the VV forum and the rear wheels are supposed to turn a little to further assist with steering:

http://flytheroad.com/blog/forums/topic.php?id=32&replies=14
http://flytheroad.com/blog/forums/topic.php?id=482&replies=51

This is just a friendly reminder of what we are waiting on. :-)
http://www.flytheroad.com/video/Concept_D_360.mov

[Derwin]

Actually this was already discussed in the VV forum...

This is just a friendly reminder of what we are waiting on. :-)
http://www.flytheroad.com/video/Concept_D_360.mov

Hardtime, If members want to discuss all of these things in this CLUB forum, I think it is great. As you know, we are a separate entity, and there may indeed be parallel discussions going on in both locations.

Thanks.

Derwin

[Hardtime11]

I go it. I was pointing out that the Venture is also supposed be using the partial rear wheel steering.

I also forgot this was a separate forum. It looks the same as the rest of the club with the "Where Venture Vehicle enthusiasts gather" slogan at the top. My error, it is a little bit confusing to me. :-(

[Hardtime11]

Now I see the little text box below the user tool bar. Sorry about that.

[timo2112]

Dagne has new video on their blog site , kinda cool how they show the very first test drive and the vehicle .... :wave:

[ziggy951]

Dagne has new video on their blog site , kinda cool how they show the very first test drive and the vehicle .... :wave:


Link?

[timo2112]

Sorry ziggy ! here's the place .. http:/www.revolutionmotors.biz/blog o:o:p:s12

[Derwin]

The below videos and comments are from the Revolution Motors website. ENJOY!

As promised, here is some video footage of the Dagne proof-of-concept prototype. We decided to share some of the early (unedited) videos we took of the prototype so you can get some perspective on our development process, and a clear sense of who we are and where we’re coming from.

Each of the videos is posted on YouTube. Be sure to click “watch in high quality” under the video image to get good resolution. Please come back HERE to our Blog to post your comments. We hope you enjoy watching these!

Video Clip #1 - Dagne’s First Test Drive: This is our first powered test drive out of Eric’s garage where we built the prototype. At this point, the steering and braking were still a bit twitchy, and we were controlling FWD/REV with a foot switch (ironically). The lean was mechanically locked upright, so turning caused Dagne to lean to the outside in a turn (not so comfortable). The top speed here was about 2.3 mph :)

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Video Clip #2 - Dagne’s Second Test Drive: Note: the traction battery didn’t actually die - we later realized that a disable feature in the motor controller had been inadvertently triggered.


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Video Clip #3 - Dagne’s First Lean: This was the first time Dagne’s lean was actively controlled. At the low speeds we were limited to in Eric’s street however, the lean was pretty subtle. By this time the braking and steering were quite smooth due to some mechanical and software improvements we had made since the first test drives.


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Video Clip #4 - Dagne Intro and Carving: This is our first “Hello World” video, with a little tour of the prototype by it’s creators and a short test drive with modest carving. We will need to build the next prototype (the alpha prototype) before we drive much faster than what you see here, due to some re-engineering we need to do to the lean/steer mechanism to make it more stable, as well as using a proper battery pack that can support higher speeeds.


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[ziggy951]

Ok so now my wife is pissed off at me. I was practically begging for sex earlier today and now I told her I just need a nap. When i showed her the videos she said she understood.


2thumb:up



Z

[AZEqualizer]

Ok my observations are:

You can't believe the specs because it is all paper guess estimates much like early V1.
They may change a lot of their ideas when the rubber meets the road. Such as they may come to similar conclusions that Vv and others have made in regards to in wheel motors. (note the prototype doesn't have these but has a drive similar to the Aptera) and other things.

The computer controlled - joystick steering, tilting, acceleration and directional change may hit a snag when the lawyers, who will eventually be involved, look at risk management and potential liability issues.

I don't know how realistic it is to surmise that the vehicles "can be fueled by any combination of gas, diesel, biodiesel, or ethanol." Even if they use a turbine for a genset ICE there is still fuel management issues. You can't just dump this all in a common tank and expect it to work. You have fuel injection and viscosity issues to contend with... plus a lot of fuels don't mix well along with the water attraction and corrosive differences. Also looking at where the proposed Gen set is theorized to sit in the vehicle. Besides size and cooling considerations for it you also have a similar concern for the vehicle occupants. Then we have maintenance access - this could prove prohibitive or clumsy as well. It is just me I know, but I find it irritating that they show a EPA rating when they haven't shown anything to the EPA or have anything for the EPA to classify

http://www.revolutionmotors.biz/revolution/images/pictures/specifications.gif

I see a lot of indicators that the Dagne is at the very early stage of development and that reality will set in much like what happened to VV. I wish them luck because we need lots of solutions like these but I don't understand the blindness around the specifications like these are the hard core bottom line instead of the theoretical goals that they really are.

[Miracleman89]

Is it me or does it seem like the thing is a bit jerky during stop and go still! The first video was horrible and the last one still had a bit of jerkyness to it, even when tilting!

[MVRacing]

I agree with AZE.
In addition, they still have a lot of software work to do as MM89 observed. Not only that, but when they start getting any type of speed, they will have to, in some way, replicate the software that Carver has for tilt control.
IMHO bottom line is while I wish them best of luck and success, they still have a looong way to go.

[PropstotheGast]

I recall seeing something like this in a major manufacturer video, but I cant remember what or where.

In anycase it looks nifty, but...

I dont like a single rear tire that leans into corners, it looks like deadly oversteer waiting to happen with little ability to correct. Rather I should say I would not trust a drive by wire joystick to give the needed control to steer out of oversteer.

[pharuan]

Update for the quarter please?