2 Oct update from Steve Perry

[MVRacing]

Hello. Steve Parry here. When I posted on this site for the first time about a month ago I committed to regularly communicate our milestones as we work our way to eventual production and sales. To that end I thought it was an appropriate time to highlight a number of key developments that have transpired over the past month.

First, I’m very pleased to tell you that a few short days ago The State of California passed a significant piece of legislation that will allow our customers to realize the full benefits of owning and driving a Venture vehicle. California AB 2272 is a landmark bill that permits fully enclosed, three-wheeled motor vehicles, to access high-occupancy vehicle lanes.

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_2251-2300/ab_2272_bill_20080221_introduced.pdf (http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_2251-2300/ab_2272_bill_20080221_introduced.pdf)

This bill came to pass in great part due to the tireless efforts of our Chief Operating Officer & General Counsel (and Venture Vehicles Founder) Howard Levine. Howard personally spent months working behind the scenes in Sacramento to help get this bill passed.

While it is a great victory, it is only the beginning. Howard and his team have already launched an aggressive program to get similar legislation passed in other states critical to the successful launch of our vehicle. As we push this initiative forward we may be calling upon you to voice your opinion with legislators in your state. Please watch this site for updates.

This is an example of what I meant when I said in my last post that we are not only working hard to get our vehicle in the hands of customers as soon as possible, but we are also launching a company. In this case we are literally working far beyond the development of our vehicle to ensure the best ownership experience for our customers.

The second piece of important news is the completion of an exhaustive set of feasibility and market studies that we commissioned to look at a number of crucial areas of our program. These studies were critical because they not only validated our assumptions as to the potential of our vehicle but also led us to make a significant change in the propulsion system. One critical decision involves the optimum power train. As you may know, there is a wide range of alternatives from full electric to flex fuel. We have in fact modeled numerous versions. At this stage we are engineering a parallel hybrid configuration and will make a final decision upon completion of testing in the next several weeks.

I know there is also great interest in the Alpha program. Following construction of the first mule and the power train work noted above, we determined we had sufficient information to move forward to study a gasoline-electric version in detail. As a result, we moved beyond the alpha work to focus all efforts on the power train best suited to meeting our mileage, performance and cost objectives.

Lastly, I’m happy to tell you that we have engaged a new Communications team that has been given the assignment to manage this site. They have the direct responsibility to provide clear and up to date information and to help us avoid technical difficulties like the one that recently shut down parts of this site.

Their first assignment is to refresh the existing content to more accurately reflect the current state of the program. They are also working on a number of upgrades that we hope will roll-out in the months to come. Look for our Communications spokesman, Scot Keller, to introduce himself on this forum in the next couple of days. Please also keep on eye on this site as we have more interesting news that we will be bringing you in the near future.

Thanks again for all the enthusiasm you have shown. And, we look forward to continuing to here from all of you!
Steve

Posted: 2008-10-02 15:34:00 # (http://flytheroad.com/blog/forums/topic.php?id=892&page=3#post-19453)

[MVRacing]

IMHO a new communications team is greatly needed .... BUT, quit studying and get it into production!!!

[westonlgray]

I am surprised at the comment on a parallel propulsion system. I would think that a small light vehicle like this would be perfect for a series propulsion set. A good parallel propulsion system would take significantly more engineering effort to get right, and there is also a much more complicated system. If they could cram the engine for the new Honda Insight in the back, I would be all for it though. V1 would be much lighter and have better aerodynamics, so it might get 100 MPG with some minor tweaks.

In any case, I can't wait to start seeing some more information.

[MVRacing]

Hello. Steve Parry here. ......
I know there is also great interest in the Alpha program. Following construction of the first mule and the power train work noted above, we determined we had sufficient information to move forward to study a gasoline-electric version in detail. As a result, we moved beyond the alpha work to focus all efforts on the power train best suited to meeting our mileage, performance and cost objectives.



So, it does look like they have "moved beyond" the Alpha already. IMHO this is good news! Only wish they would quit studying and get it into production!!

[Derwin]

Lastly, I’m happy to tell you that we have engaged a new Communications team that has been given the assignment to manage this site. They have the direct responsibility to provide clear and up to date information and to help us avoid technical difficulties like the one that recently shut down parts of this site.

That's some of the best news I've heard since the company forum was created!


Derwin

[RAN]

Since I have nothing good to say, I will say nothing.

[Derwin]

Your a good man, RAN! 2thumb:up

Derwin

[danbucks]

This post is from which site, and Steve Parry or Steve Perry (both are cited)? The latter has nothing to do with NGEN, but rather, was a rock dude with Journey hy:per1)
rock on!

[waboom]

Good to hear about the dedicated team assigned to the web site - before it felt like they hired a company to do the initial site roll-out and then left to its own devices. We'll see what updates/improvements they can bring to flytheroad.com.

So did the Alpha really move? And when? I have a coffee mug to give away....

[MVRacing]

This post is from which site, and Steve Parry or Steve Perry (both are cited)? The latter has nothing to do with NGEN, but rather, was a rock dude with Journey hy:per1)
rock on!

Hi ya Danbucks,

I copied it from the official site. Sorry for the mis-spelling of his name...my bad.

[PHEVadvocate]

My hope is they are making a Full Plug in Hybrid that can go 40 miles on a charge and full speed on electric power. v:i:c:t;o;ry1)

My guess is that VV has run into some legal restrictions like patents and cost issues on batteries and electronics. bang:h:1

My fear is that they will make a BAS (belt alternator starter) system (weak hybrid) like what is on the Saturn Vue Green Line, because is easy, cheap, and does not violate their agreement with Carver. :(

I can understand doing a Parallel Hybrid as a the first step, because the engine can still move the vehicle if the hybrid system goes down , they are not as complex as a series hybrid system, and they can be scaled down to reduce the cost. :(

I'm happy that they are posting again.2thumb:up

[westonlgray]

PHEV, well, if they do have a system like the Vue that requires the ICE to run any time the vehicle moves, then that may be simpler, but a true parallel hybrid is more complex than a serial drive. For a serial drive, you don't have to coordinate the ICE with the drive motor at all (other than to make sure the ICE starts up when you want it to).

[PHEVadvocate]

Westonlgray, I agree a full parallel hybrid (strong hybrid) is more complex, but a weak or mild Parallel hybrids can be pretty simple too. The battery management system and the drive electronics of a series hybrid for a production car can be complex too.

[Miracleman89]

Ahhh The beast lives!!! Thank the maker!! no:wor:thy1hy:per1)

Well I guess I won't get the mugs! :(

The alpha has been sidelined for studies, is that what I read? Enough with the studies!!!!! Lets get the V1 to the market!:COP:

[WarpedOne]

So, it is a parallel hybrid now? Suddenly CVT makes sense...

Too many cooks spoil the broth though. Some more market studies and they will be importing Carvers. Which would not be a bad thing by itself.

They should just get a deal with Van Den Brink to produce Carver Ones for USA market. If they would manage to make a few thousands per year, the price should be much lower than current.

/me disappointed again...

[Timon]

Parallel hybrid, to put it bluntly "That sucks".

The only good parallel hybrid on the market today is the Toyota design also used by Ford and I doubt that VV will get a license from Toyota.

Going from a serial to parallel means that the EV and hybrid versions are totally different rather than the only difference being the ICE charger and different battery capacities. We've gone from a simple hardware system to a much more complex one. Even the electronics is more complex in a parallel hybrid system. Again IMHO, it's a bad idea.

IMHO going away from a serial hybrid may end up killing the V1. I hope I'm wrong but this news reduced my support of the V1 a bit. I'm not closing the door on them yet but the door is not as wide open as it one was.

The only way that this might pan out is if VV will openly discuss why they are moving to a parallel hybrid but with the current level of discussions coming out of VV that's not going to happen.

At this point the Aptera is starting to look better and better especially since they made the latest design changes.

It's a sorry day in VV land:cry:

[westonlgray]

With the development of the Dagne coming right along, it will be a close one for the V1. If V1 is going to a parallel hybrid design, they had better use an ICE that is commonly available here in the US. My big concern is parts. If the design was series, we could modify or even replace the ICE, but with a parallel design, we will definitely be stuck with what they give us. For me, that means that the brand of the ICE will matter a lot.

[Hardtime11]

So, it is a parallel hybrid now? Suddenly CVT makes sense...

Too many cooks spoil the broth though. Some more market studies and they will be importing Carvers. Which would not be a bad thing by itself.

They should just get a deal with Van Den Brink to produce Carver Ones for USA market. If they would manage to make a few thousands per year, the price should be much lower than current.

I agree with you to a point. The only problem is Carver needs to go to mass production assembly instead of the method they use now. I like the personal touch however mass production gets rid of "some" errors in the assembly process such as irregularities between assembled products.

[RAN]

Timon, I knew that sooner or later someone would echo my views, and in a nicer way than I was capable of when I read the update :-{)]

Thanks!

[Mike kZ]

Also the parallel hybrid is not known for it's performance! No wonder the 0-60 when from under 5 sec to over 7 sec !

[MikeB]

Going from a serial to parallel means that the EV and hybrid versions are totally different rather than the only difference being the ICE charger and different battery capacities. We've gone from a simple hardware system to a much more complex one. Even the electronics is more complex in a parallel hybrid system. Again IMHO, it's a bad idea.

IMHO going away from a serial hybrid may end up killing the V1. I hope I'm wrong but this news reduced my support of the V1 a bit. I'm not closing the door on them yet but the door is not as wide open as it one was.


I swear I posted this same sentiment earlier in this thread, but my post isn't here.

I agree, doing a parallel hybrid is a big FAIL, in my book. The defining point of a parallel hybrid is that the electric motors aren't capable of moving the vehicle at full speed, the mechanical transmission is required to get full performance. That means that in order to go anywhere at full speed, you have to start the engine. Your plug-in range is exactly zero.

Sure, the V1 is somewhat interesting as an enclosed motorcycle, but the next vehicle I purchase (after this year) is going to be a PHEV or an all-electric. Parallel hybrid isn't gonna do it.

[Derwin]

I swear I posted this same sentiment earlier in this thread, but my post isn't here..

Mike, If you posted something to this thread, it would still be here. Maybe you posted it to another thread, I don't know. But none of your posts were deleted..... that much I can promise you.

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

I agree ... I am not really keen on a parallel hybrid either. I hope that when they study all the power trains they find this is not the way to go.

[Baja_Traveler]

I'm thinking they are going this route to overcome the requirements for large battery packs. Shame - the proposed prototype was so much more along the lines of what I would like to see.

[RAN]

I'm thinking they are going this route to overcome the requirements for large battery packs. Shame - the proposed prototype was so much more along the lines of what I would like to see.

Exactly.

[Timon]

Timon, I knew that sooner or later someone would echo my views, and in a nicer way than I was capable of when I read the update :-{)]

Thanks!

You should have seen my first draft:)

[Donald1800]

PARALLEL HYBRID!!!
See folks, I told you so right after the last official survey. It was beginning to sound a lot like a parallel hybrid from that survey. Now we know for sure.

I'm sorry. I can NOT see any justification for this change in direction. It nullifies EVERY benefit and advantage the original concept provided.

I'm not happy with this. During the next 1 1/2 - 2 years, I'm going to be weighing very closely what becomes available. The VV1 has lost a lot of 'Luster' and is NOT a prime candidate for my money. We'll have to wait and see how and what falls out of this economy and fuel price environment. I was hoping for better than what VV1 is trying to sell us.

Donald1800

[RAN]

I hear ya Donald. As many of us figured, those months of silence did not produce progress.

Next thing we hear, you'll have to get out and hand crank the engine to start it.

[randi]

Woefully, it seems everything has gone BACKWARDS with the V1. The latest update chalks up another disappointing turn.

Aside from the slick modified "D" body design, whatever the V1 is shaping up to be, isn't the paradigm shift it's been touted--that near sublime thing that made every single one here giddy with hope and excitement.

Whereas VV promised the "moon"; we might just be stuck with stinky cheese.

du:n:n:o(

[Derwin]

Well, I don't think it would be "stinky cheese", But it is definately disappointing. When it comes down to it, though, I would still LOVE to have this vehicle in my driveway. Owning a Carver as it exists right now would be incredibly exciting, and the V1 will be MUCH better than the Carver.

But it is surely NOT the paradigm shift that we all expected, and that's a shame in my opinion.

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

One critical decision involves the optimum power train. As you may know, there is a wide range of alternatives from full electric to flex fuel. We have in fact modeled numerous versions. At this stage we are engineering a parallel hybrid configuration and will make a final decision upon completion of testing in the next several weeks.
It's not a done deal that it will be a parallel hybrid... let us hope that one of the other alternates show up being the better "optimum power train." I for one have my own specs that will be a deciding factor in in purchasing this vehicle and of course this could be a moving target based upon lots of future things. Since I am not a precog I will wait and see when the future becomes the now.

[danbucks]

I am sure Steve will make the right choice.
Make no mistake, if the V1 is nothing more than a cheaper clone of the Carver ... one must seriously reconsider the volume, and therefore the per-unit cost, of the market. ... the cost then goes up, which makes it just a micro-step from a Carver.

It must have serious MPG as well - it is certainly 1/2 of what attracted me.
I am certain most wish for 0 fuel consumption for short distance trips (parallel or series or otherwise). That has serious appeal, and much more so in a year or two.

[waboom]

Next thing we hear, you'll have to get out and hand crank the engine to start it.

No, the next thing you'll hear is that you'll have to hand crank the "tilt"!:LOL:

[Mark Tomlinson]

I, too, was disappointed with the parallel hybrid comment - but it's not final and not a deal breaker. Reread the quote that AZE posted above and you will see that it was mentioned (almost as an afterthought) to demonstrate they are looking at many options.

If it does make it into the final design, it will only be because it is the "the optimum power train", which I'm sure considers both price and performance. I can't argue with that. However, I am concerned that a parallel hybrid will require more maintenance than a serial and certainly more than a full electric choice. Since I intend to "fly to buy", I really want a vehicle that will be easier to maintain until support can be found in my neighborhood.

[Hardtime11]

No, the next thing you'll hear is that you'll have to hand crank the "tilt"!:LOL:
OK, I will go with it:

I was just thinking about that "Gilligan's Island" episode where they were testing their raft with ropes and such to cause it to emulate rough water. Maybe they are going to use a couple of pull strings coming off of pulleys hanging from the ceiling? 2thumb:up

Maybe some sort of "Dial-a-tilt" device.r:o:f:l:2:2:1
JK

I am pretty sure they have the tilting down pat. They just have to fix everything else.

[Miracleman89]

OK, I will go with it:

I was just thinking about that "Gilligan's Island" episode where they were testing their raft with ropes and such to cause it to emulate rough water. Maybe they are going to use a couple of pull strings coming off of pulleys hanging from the ceiling? 2thumb:up

Maybe some sort of "Dial-a-tilt" device.r:o:f:l:2:2:1
JK

I am pretty sure they have the tilting down pat. They just have to fix everything else.

I hated Gilligan's Island!!!!! I was a young kid when I saw that show and I could never figure out how the professor could make a radio out of coconuts but he couldn't build a boat out of all the stuff they had????

[SLaKZ]

I have been following VV since I saw the show featuring their vehicle on Invention Nation. I was hoping to be driving one by now, but I understand development takes time. I am excited to hear about the updates to come on the website.

Like elsewhere in this thread I was hoping for a series system. I think the electric drive is part of what makes this vehicle so exciting.

SLaKZ

[RAN]

Thanks for the post SLaKZ and welcome!

[Lumberjack]

I hated Gilligan's Island!!!!! I was a young kid when I saw that show and I could never figure out how the professor could make a radio out of coconuts but he couldn't build a boat out of all the stuff they had????


you have not been around very many engineers lately... LOL

[Hardtime11]

you have not been around very many engineers lately... LOL

LOL you got that one right. A lot of times an engineer is great at what they do but give them something they never do and are only booksmart about it somewhat and they can not do it. A lot of times the Common Sense in other areas is non existent and they can not associate it to figure it out. Not trying to put anyone down but my brother-in-law is an engineer and when it comes to the outdoors he is lost.

[cobraphx]

I was a huge fan of the V1, but the move to a parallel hybrid certainly reduces my interest. If it can't come close to the Chevy Volt's electric only range and exceed it's acceleration times, it won't be in my driveway. I decided that my next vehicle will have enough electric only range to eliminate my commuting fossil fuel consumption. If the V1 can't do that, it won't make it into my driveway no matter how cool it looks or how far it leans. Which is certainly a disappointment... but it will certainly meet the other's expectations even if it falls short of mine.

I would hope that some info from the following two sources would prove the range extended EV to be the better design for consumers. First the study GM did to prepare for the Volt... http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/02/gm-study-shows.html and next the new tax rebate for battery powered vehicles... http://www.motorauthority.com/senate-passes-bill-that-approves-up-to-7500-in-tax-credits-for-plug-ins.html

The superior design is series hybrid, and with a $2,500 tax credit for using a 4kW or larger battery pack up to a max credit of $7,500 for using a 16Kw or larger battery would make the series hybrid version of the V1 cheaper to buy for the consumer than the parallel hybrid version. Can't imagine the Parallel Hybrid being more than $6,000 - $7,000 cheaper to produce than the series version. But then again maybe is is.

[RAN]

agr:1