Passenger Seat

[Mark Tomlinson]

(I'm going to kick this up over here because, well, frankly, what I intended as well a meaning design and marketing suggestion to Ian on the VV forum degraded instantaneously into another commenter's almost name-calling defense of a design decision that hasn't been made and he's not involved in anyway. Almost never happens on the Internet, right?)

In Ian's latest update he included a photo of a seating mock-up (http://www.flytheroad.com/images/IMG_2611.jpg). In the photo, a person (young lady?) in the passenger seat looked like he/she was sitting fairly comfortable considering the space in back. What was bothersome is that it appeared Ian's seat (he was "driving") was pulled all the way forward. To his defense, Ian reported that it's a work-in-progress.

My concern is simply that VV give the passenger seat as much attention as possible. Comparisons to the "back seat" in other cars are invalid because the V1 will not have a front passenger seat. The only passenger seat will be in the back. This is a two passenger car and I, for one, intend to use it as such. The passenger, be it me or my wife, has as much say in the purchase of the vehicle as the driver in my household.

Considering the use of the vehicle - including driving it from California to home in Illinois or visiting my brother in Florida - the passenger seat better accommodate a person comfortably for extended periods. The vehicle will be fun to drive, that's for sure, but it also should be fun to ride in.

I realize there are constraints. I'm not suggesting reconfiguring the whole thing so the passenger can stretch out. What I am suggesting is that entrance and egress as well as extended comfort should be serious design considerations. Much more so than the "back seat" in conventional sedans.

I can't reiterate it enough. This is a two passenger vehicle. It will be sold and purchased as a two passenger vehicle. A cramped back seat could be a real deal breaker for many households.

I trust Ian and company have thought about this. I'm just nervous after seeing the mock-up.

[RAN]

I hear ya Mark. At present, I'm flying solo, but for those who aren't the back seat in the V-1 is much more critical than the ones in any sport coupe or 2+2. Even if it meant lengthening and widening the thing, it needs to be able to hold at least a small adult with reasonable comfort. Probably needs to be a computer back there too.. or at least the stereo controls.... something for them to do (Chinese finger puzzle??? Energy-free entertainment :-)

And yes, ain't it amazing how quickly things can turn sour on the internet??

Rick

[rogwild]

I forget the exact figures but they said that 50-70% of all auto trips carry only 1 person. This is the main market that V.V. intended to target.
That being said, I agree that the back seat must provide a margin of comfort for a normal person for 'commuting' distances. They want to keep the overall vehicle as sleek and small (weight, length, width) as possible.
My 'solution' to this was to keep the front seat as thin as possible (I even suggested an 'ergonomic' mesh type), but the one in the mock-up is fairly narrow (thin). And I suggested keeping the ability (like the Carver) to have the rear passenger place their legs around the driver's seat (as an 'optional' seating position) for long-legged passengers. This would also allow normal sized riders to 'stretch' their legs on longer trips. I realize that this is not the safest mode in case of a 'side impact'; but I have been driving for over 40 years and luckily never had a side impact accident.
With the inclusion of a 'side impact rail' and possible side curtain airbags, the V-1 will provide much more protection than a motorcycle. And with 'normal' passengers this 'optional' riding position would be rarely used.
It would slightly increase the width, but only near the center of the vehicle, and it could provide some additional storage 'pockets' or a place for a 'law enforcement long gun' in special models. I am sure that if this rear seating gets enough 'complaints' future models may include a 'PLUS' model to accommodate Larger and Taller people.

[rogwild]

I wouldn't become too concerned just yet about the 'final seating' since this 'seating buck' (An accurate representation of the interior of a car, including seats, pedals, instruments, steering wheel, doors and floor. Some seating bucks are created to evaluate style; others can be used to prove out ergonomics, comfort, door openings, etc.) is just in its 'infancy'. It presently looks like something a DIY guy could make in his garage in an afternoon. It does not have any 'Fome-Cor' (A trade name for a material used in the designing of interior bucks and mockups. Fome-Cor typically consists of a 1/8 to _ inch sheet of Styrofoam sandwiched between two layers of heavy, white paper) or any of the pedals (probably), steering wheel/yoke or instruments (obviously).
Once they start 'adding things' I'm sure changes will have to be made.
Also that 'LARGE' opening will require a 'huge door'; hope they are seriously considering the 'door and half' suggestion.
Here is a picture of a more 'mature' seating buck (using 'virtual technology').

[wolf_tracker]

Hi,

I would be using the v1 90 percent of the time with two ppl
in it. a bad back seat would be a deal breaker for us.

Which ever one of us is riding in the back. :cool:

We would be planning on 6 to 8 hour trips in the v1.

just my .02 comments and thoughts

wolf

[Mark Tomlinson]

Rogwild,

Although you might not think so, I think we're on the same track. I wouldn't expect more than half a door in back - and I believe Ian is already committed to that. I also realize that the buck is barely started, and Ian also pointed that out. Furthermore, I feel it's understandable that the passenger seat will be less comfortable than the drivers seat, but it didn't look like the person in the back was having an issue with it.

All I really am concerned about is the priority that VV is giving the passenger seat design. I feel that the forums are a focus group of sorts, so we should voice what's important to us and what's not. That will help the designers figure out what will sell the vehicle and what won't. From what I'm seeing, the passenger seat is important to a lot of people.

I'm sure they will make the right decisions for the V1, time will tell. What that means to the passenger seat, I don't know.

[Lumberjack]

Unlike many others I would be using it as a commuter and could care less about the back seat. Perhaps VV might want to split the models into 1 and 2 passenger versions?

[rogwild]

From what I'm seeing, the passenger seat is important to a lot of people.

This is the forum to make your desires known, and I hope V.V. is listening. Personally a roomy, comfortable back seat capable of long range commutes is of very little importance to me, although the rear passenger capability has to be a strong selling point. I feel that I will be carrying a 'human passenger' less than 5% of the time. A removable rear seat, or a folding one that would 'maximize' cargo area would be preferable to allow for more 'groceries' or camping gear. Occasionally I will be transporting a large dog, so a flat area in the rear is all that is required for me. In fact for longer trips, I would prefer a driver's seat that could 'recline' to allow for brief naps at rest areas, than a fully padded rear seat that would be very seldom used.
I realize that my situation is in the minority, but this IS the place to express our needs and desires. Perhaps a SOLO, 'camping, doggie owners' V-1' is in the future?

[Hardtime11]

I feel that I will be carrying a 'human passenger' less than 5% of the time. A removable rear seat, or a folding one that would 'maximize' cargo area would be preferable to allow for more 'groceries' or camping gear. Perhaps a SOLO, 'camping, doggie owners' V-1' is in the future?

See, there I would be opposite with about a 50% of the time two up ride at a minimum. Especially on any type of a trip the wife is coming and the trailer will probably be hooked up if it is someplace new. When I am just commuting between properties (different states) no trailer will be needed as I leave stuff at each location.

I might have to put something on top of my trailer for the "mutt" (if I get another one) to ride in/on if not lap or rear deck. My wife likes to go anywhere as long as it is with me. :rolleyes:

[Billy]

[quote=rogwild;411]I forget the exact figures but they said that 50-70% of all auto trips carry only 1 person. This is the main market that V.V. intended to target.


Maybe so, but if my 6'2" 260lb brother wants to tag along, he better be able to fit backthere. If not, no deal.

[jmeineck]

rogwild

Maybe they could put a removeable passanger seat that could hold Billy's 6'2" 260lb brother. That way those of us who will be commuting alone most of the time can remove the set and those people who will have a passenger will have what they need also:)

[Billy]

I'll probably get heat for even asking, but there's an arguement either way. Firse and foremost, I didn't want to start another thread. It doesn't pertain to this subject, but here.... What about a door on the right side, like a normal 2dr car. My point being safety, and convienice. However, there is a weight issue to address. I can see both sides of this, either way is fine with me, but I'd like to see 2 doors.

[rogwild]

Billy, 'DOORS' have always been a big issue. How many, which side, even a 1.5 (suicide type rear door). Also type 'opening', regular, Lambo, gullwing, no door -climb in; (I think everything, except sliding van doors. The FTR Forum has many pages of discussions, probably under 'Options I'd like'.

[PHEVadvocate]

Here is a toyota concept with suicide doors, how about it Ian?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/detroit-2008-toyota-a-bat-concept-1/547276/

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/03/holy-extensive-gallery-bat-man-toyotas-a-bat-fully-revealed/

[Cocolicius]

I'm completely okay with the 1+ configuration for passengers. This seems to be a primarily solo vehicle with the option of a jumpseat passenger for short trips. Personally, I will be using it for 30mi roundtrip weekday commutes to work with the occasional outing with my Mrs. If we're looking for 'comfort' for the rear passenger I think we'll be getting into the realm of unlikeliness.

Carved out front seatbacks would help with rear legroom, I hope the rear seat folds flat for more cargo room. It worries me that these design items haven't been pinned down already... what's the current release date again?

Anyway, I think of the Persu Hybrid as the equivalent to a motorcycle with sidecar. I'd HATE to take a 100+ mi. roadtrip in this baby with a passenger. Doable, but not very comfy. My two cents anyway.